Where would you use ethanol and how would you apply it to free up air brake lines of ice? would this be pure ethanol? I used to see containers of ethanol in RR yards.
A bit of truth, and a bit of lore from an old Engineer.Alcohol could be introduced to a locomotive air system at the compressor, it being miscible with water the same as putting alcohol in the gas tank of a car or oil tank of heater, furnace.Air compressed creates condensate in air receivers and had to be manually blown out by Engineer every 4 hours as stenciled on tanks. ( Only the newly set up ones froze and tore their lips. )
This helped prevent freezing in air lines and brake equipments. etc.Now the lore.The Old Engineer said if much alcohol was used at 50 below, the resulting vapour mix was flammable and could be ignited at brake stand vent in locomotive cab when a Reduction was made. Truth or Not??When a locomotive, steam or Diesel was to be shut down or failed in cold weather, there was usually a diagram in cab on how to drain Diesel Engine coolant from system at low points. Ditto S/G and tanks, if Equipped.Same for steam locomotive re blowing down and removing boiler plugs and draining and blowing out all piping while steam still available. Hoses from tender and steam lines if stoker and/or tank heaters would be opened at low points and tender drained..Passenger cars, etc would be blown out end to end while engine still on train, steam heat then shut off in Cab. Train then usually put on Yard Steam on arrival at coach yard. Coaches, etc. would have to be 'Protected' by draining if tied up off steam for a long period.Long term storage of steam outdoors would require greasing of bright metal, cross head guides, application of stack covers and so on.If something froze bad, it would be moved into heated shop and thawed out.If something froze and split, it would have to be fixed.Heat could be applied from a locomotive using steam wand, or locally, by lit fusee, waste soaked in coal oil, and lit.I understand Carbide, Google it, was thrown into frozen culverts to thaw them, and gas, Acetylene, ignited.Carbide containers, Union Carbide, Green, corrogated, were ubiquitous, cut in half, and bottom sections used for trash buckets EVERYWHERE back in the day.A Non-standard-standard, like glass insulators on standoffs on legs of Caboose Chairs. BITD. Blahx3.Thank You.
It's typically automatically added to the yard air supply.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
These days use of Alcohol in brake systems is prohibited by FRA rules, due to neoprene gaskets in air valves, use of air drieres is what prevents moisture from entering brake system.
Ethanol/alcohol is not the only type of antifreeze that has been used over the years, and gaskets are not the only thing that it can play havoc with. Nearly 40 years ago a runaway was caused by improper use of antifreeze on a line I used to work (not at the time of course, heard the story from an old head while I was there).
The setting is a limestone quarry on the eastern slope of the Rocky Mountains, where mine personel load trains themselves by rolling them downhill one car length at a time, controlling the brakes with their own air supply (no locomotives required). At the time they were using a different type of antifreeze which was adequete for the mine, situated in a valley regularly bathed in warm Chinook winds blowing over the mountain. But as the railway leaves the minesite it winds over a couple ridges and into another valley which is regularly 20 degrees colder than the minesite.
So the crew came back to pick up the loaded train just like usual, and the brakes behaved normally as the pulled away from the minesite. But as they pulled uphill over the ridges and started downhill into the -40C air of the next valley the leftover "antifreeze" froze in the brake pipe and car control valves, rendering the cars' brake inoperative. You can guess what happened next.
The train ran away for 2 miles down a nearly 2.5% grade, derailing at over 40 MPH (track speed is 20) on a tight S-curve and wooden trestle. Out of the 60ish car train only the locomotives, first car and caboose stayed on, the rest of the cars derailed. Amazingly apart from bumps and bruises no one was hurt, and the line has since been rebuilt with a long, straight fill in place of the S-curves and trestle.
Also needless to say the quarry switched to a better type of antifreeze.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Dutchrailnut use of air drieres is what prevents moisture from entering brake system.
use of air drieres is what prevents moisture from entering brake system.
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BigJim... in an unperfect world, the fact is that when snow is deep enough, uncoupled air hoses get dragged through the show and end up impacted. Knocking the glad hands together may get rid of most of the snow , but, a lot may still remain and enter the system.
Would this call for smaller dryers distributed in the air system, perhaps close to each triple valve? Or some kinf of flowmetering that would diagnose an ice (or foreign material) obstruction in the trainline in a way that makes early isolation and fixing practical?
So would this be Denatured Alcohol? Like I said I took a sip and I am still here. Since this Alcohol never goes to retail I wonder who the supplier was?
Beats me. I never really had any trouble with it. I'm guessing the dirt collecter took care of most of it. The best I remember is that the only time alcohol was used in a trainline was when we couldn't get enough pressure on the rear of the train to make an initial terminal brake test. I saw alcohol used when I first started,but, later on you never saw it again.
Dutchrailnut These days use of Alcohol in brake systems is prohibited by FRA rules, due to neoprene gaskets in air valves, use of air drieres is what prevents moisture from entering brake system.
Thanks. Didn't know. My recollections are from a few decades ago.
BigJim Dutchrailnut use of air drieres is what prevents moisture from entering brake system. Yes, for the most part. However, in an unperfect world, the fact is that when snow is deep enough, uncoupled air hoses get dragged through the snow and end up impacted. Knocking the glad hands together may get rid of most of the snow , but, a lot may still remain and enter the system. This is also true for foreign matter such as limestone or anything that has piled up between the rails.
Yes, for the most part. However, in an unperfect world, the fact is that when snow is deep enough, uncoupled air hoses get dragged through the snow and end up impacted. Knocking the glad hands together may get rid of most of the snow , but, a lot may still remain and enter the system. This is also true for foreign matter such as limestone or anything that has piled up between the rails.
My recollection of locomotive air dryers is that keeping them going on the locomotives is a bit problematic. The regenerative desiccant type often get fouled with oil carryover from the compressor and basically stop functioning. I have no idea if this situation has improved in recent times or not.
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