With one unit already retired, it appears that more are being moved in that direction. Additionally, none of the remaining 19 units are provisioned for PTC. This is a sure sign that they're not currently expected to last into the PTC era, at least according to current plans....
Currently, only 9 of the 19 remaining units are in active service. The rest are out of service for some mechanical malady, including grounded generators - nearly akin to blowing your prime mover in locomotive terms.
-CSX Locomotives Facebook Page
CSX hates EMDs.
They had SOO much GEs and Should buy EMDs
Truly, nobody really likes the early production thundercab SD70ACes.
CSX has apparently tested some of the SD70ACe-T4 demonstrators but we'll just have to see, especially in the current market...
Here in CSX territory I don't an awful lot of EMD units except for some older models like GP-38's, GP-40's, the occasional SD40-2 and such. It's pretty much GE territory. Occasionally there's an SD70, but it seems to be the exception, not the rule.
NSrailfan8114 They Should buy EMDs
They Should buy EMDs
Other than for foamer variety, why? As Northwest pointed out the thundercabs are junk, and at only 19 units, a small subfleet. CSX seems to be OK with a majority GE fleet, so why are you so against it?
An "expensive model collector"
The GE's are boring and all look alike anymore.
bcrnfan The GE's are boring and all look alike anymore. Remember what I said January 16th about being a railfan and getting trackside, because you don't know what you might see? Me neither, until today. I was taking lunch at one of my spots, the periphery of an Amtrak station, when what did I see? An NS Dash-8 parked on the auxiliary track. What was an NS locomotive doing on an Amtrak track in CSX territory, and idling too? Who knows? But that's the thrill of the hunt baby! Stick around a busy line, and you might see anything!
Remember what I said January 16th about being a railfan and getting trackside, because you don't know what you might see?
Me neither, until today. I was taking lunch at one of my spots, the periphery of an Amtrak station, when what did I see? An NS Dash-8 parked on the auxiliary track. What was an NS locomotive doing on an Amtrak track in CSX territory, and idling too? Who knows? But that's the thrill of the hunt baby! Stick around a busy line, and you might see anything!
Ah, but you see, that's a part of the challenge of being a railfan! In this run-through power day and age, especially if you live near a busy main line, you might see anything.
Here in CSX country along the old RF&P I've seen locomotives from the Union Pacific, BNSF, NS, to say nothing of some colorful leasers. You've just got to be patient.
Firelock76 bcrnfan The GE's are boring and all look alike anymore. Ah, but you see, that's a part of the challenge of being a railfan! In this run-through power day and age, especially if you live near a busy main line, you might see anything. Here in CSX country along the old RF&P I've seen locomotives from the Union Pacific, BNSF, NS, to say nothing of some colorful leasers. You've just got to be patient.
bcrnfan The GE's are boring and all look alike anymore.
You are overlooking KCS and Ferromax
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
GE's are slow to load, but they pull good...........Don't know about the SD70's, but I remember that 3 SD-40's, would out preform a set of the old DASH 9's, and they rode a lot better...........Especially the old "BN" merger ones. Also earlier GE's "wore out", while the EMD's kept going. On "Z" & "Q"'s the "GEEP 40's were far better than the "B 40's"
For what variety CSX might lack at the head of intermodals and such, they make up for it with their older EMD's that have outlasted the last 4 axle GE's in the fleet (Not to mention all U-Boats and Dash 7's).
More variety there than in a long time thanks to several rebuild programs that have been underway in recent years, upgrading classics for another 15-20 years of service. Not to mention some old friends that remain providing useful service as road slugs and look much as they did when first outshopped from La Grange back in the 1960's.
Look away from the priority trains and I think CSX is pretty interesting from a locomotive perspective.
Are they doing the same to their SD70MACs or not? And what's CSX gonna do with the ACEs they still have? Retire them like the other ones or just store them for a long time?
I haven't seen any KCS or Ferromex units around here Balt, but you never know do you?
Railfans in other parts of the country may have better luck.
In the Chicago area, the road power is dominated by GE's with some EMD's making an appearance. Yard and transfer is a little different, a couple of gensets work at Barr and various EMD's handle yard and transfer duties, including GP15T's and the occasional slug set. SD40-3's with their flat cabs are also starting to turn up.
Are SD60M's and SD70MAC's still in service or have they been purged?
To me, The SD70ACe looks very advanced, What were some of the problems with them?
Most if not all of the CSX SD70MAC's went through overhaul at PRL Mayfield, KY. The last units were completed recently.
ATSFGuyTo me, The SD70ACe looks very advanced, What were some of the problems with them?
Loud cabs seem to be a favorite issue of contention for what I imagine will someday be known as phase 1 SD70ACe's. Always seems to get mentioned before anything else at forums when folks that say they work at CSX discuss these units.
Even if they were better loved, there are only 19 of them after the retirement and sale of one of them. CSX wasn't impressed enough about some aspect of them to order more.
20 non-standard oddballs in a fleet of over 4,000 units, no matter how well they perform, are often an attractive target of elimination well before their time.
The early SD70ACes had enough cab noise that BNSF banned them from leading after union complaints. They also had the usual new-engine-model teething issues that were eventually resolved. They are still known for extremely rough riding however, and there are tons of stories of them shaking their doors open.
Remember that the first half of production of the SD70ACe was while EMD was under ownership of Greenbriar. I would safely say there is a huge difference between the Greenbriar SD70ACe and the Caterpillar SD70ACe (takeover was 2010). I am told that the SD70ACe got a complete rebuff, which is why CAT elected to build all new demos, and that the SD70ACes built 2012 and after were much better. Probably that change greatly improved the EMD reputation and possibly saved the SD70ACe line in general.
Well, it seems that some of the first CSX locomotives to be mothballed when EHH takes over have been identified.
Is an SD70M better than an SD70ACe?
ATSFGuy Is an SD70M better than an SD70ACe?
Can't compare them Apples to Apples. Ones DC ones AC.
In terms of cost of ownership the SD70M is good with its mechanical injectors, conventional TM blower/aux gen, and Tier 0/1 engine. TE 163,000lbs (starting).
SD70ACe has more tractive effort, almost 200,000lbs (starting) ; and can better handle wheel slip, both largely in part due to AC traction.
ACe is better in heavy haul where 70M would do well in intermodal and mixed freight.
The trend in railroading is moving toward AC traction with it's lower maintenance, and higher TE's, translates into a 4 DC - 3 AC unit swap for a class 1.
In a cost comparison 3 AC units may cost what 4 DC units cost, however it's still 12/16 less cylinders to maintain and less fuel used over the long run.
SD60 M & SD60I are wonderful locomotives and CSX still uses both. They are receiving PTC and have cab signal. The SD70MAC is not too bad in both generations but the SD70ACe is a bad experience to operate and maintain. They were designed by Rube Goldberg and slapped together by the Three Stooges. 20 units was 20 too many. I know CSX is testing Cat's tier 4 ACe and I hope the results are better. EMD locos have always been more durable and longer lasting than GEs but the first ACe units were a far cry from the quality of the SD40-2 units of which there are still many on the CSX roster.
Leo_Ames ATSFGuy To me, The SD70ACe looks very advanced, What were some of the problems with them? Loud cabs seem to be a favorite issue of contention for what I imagine will someday be known as phase 1 SD70ACe's. Always seems to get mentioned before anything else at forums when folks that say they work at CSX discuss these units. Even if they were better loved, there are only 19 of them after the retirement and sale of one of them. CSX wasn't impressed enough about some aspect of them to order more. 20 non-standard oddballs in a fleet of over 4,000 units, no matter how well they perform, are often an attractive target of elimination well before their time.
ATSFGuy To me, The SD70ACe looks very advanced, What were some of the problems with them?
As mentioned piecemeal above, these CSX SD70ACe units were the actual pre-production units, bound to have bundles of problems. Not only that, but they also didn't get the best attention in shaking out those issues.
Running through the other big EMDs on the CSX here for a minute, we find:
1. The SD80MACs traded to NS. CSX would rather have SD40-2s than 12 big EMDs they don't really care for. Altoona loves them though, I'm sure.
2. The SD70MACs are fine units, they'll be around a good while yet.
3. The SD70Ms are oddballs on the roster, confined to Florida for the most part. There is noise that these units aren't provisined for PTC, either.
4. The SD60Is are also rumored to be on the chopping block because they've got old electonic tech which is no longer supported, and conversion isn't considered a cost-fesible option.
5. The SD60Ms and SD60s, aside from being oddballs, don't seem to have any major marks against them.
6. The SD50-2s are interesting, as they're all downrated via computer to essentially SD40-2s, making 3000hp - that's actually what the -2 means in this context on CSX. There was a small batch of them upgraded to SD50-3s, but the project has been dormant for years.
FWIW, my hunch is that the SD70ACe will be sold off to somebody - somebody (maybe NS or EMD) will take them for remanufacture or part-out. I think the SD60I and SD70M are the next EMDs to go wide-scale. That and there's noise that the 7300-series ex-Con C40-8Ws are next on the GE block.
In the Geep world, well CSX needs them, so they won't be ditching much if any 4-axle power - keep in mind, every 4-axle unit on CSX is an EMD now!
DOUG KNAPP The SD70MAC is not too bad in both generations but the SD70ACe is a bad experience to operate and maintain. They were designed by Rube Goldberg and slapped together by the Three Stooges.
Can you elaborate on this?
We know early ACe's were loud and rougher ride, these units were non isolated cabs and non radial trucks. Beyond that, I don't know how that translates into the build quality you suggest.
Leo_Ames stated "...20 non-standard oddballs in a fleet of over 4,000 units, no matter how well they perform, are often an attractive target of elimination well before their time..." Seems to be a fairly 'safe' statement to make! It would make sense for CSX to dump 20 'orphan units as soon as they had extracted all the 'value' of those units in their system. They would seem to be good foder for NS and their locomotive rebuilding machine ,called Altoona. NS sure seems happy with their SD70AACe's.
According to the excelent website maintained by Cris R. Toth @ http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/1000.html "NS Locomotive Roster'
NS rosters aproximately 176 SD70ACe's of which 10 are part of the NS Heritage Fleet (#s in 1000/1174 ) also Chris notes that NS has rebuilt a number of EMD SD90MACs into SD70ACU's. The assumption would seem to be that NS is 'happy' with the SD70 style EMD.. After they have made 'Their Own"\' modifications.
It would seem that in the case of CSX and their SD70's: "..One man's meat, is another's belly ache..."
Saturnalia4. The SD60Is are also rumored to be on the chopping block because they've got old electonic tech which is no longer supported, and conversion isn't considered a cost-fesible option.
I wonder if this is actually the isolated cab... did they really have greatly different equipment from the CR SD60Ms from about the same time? EMD isolated cabs from that era haven't aged particularly well when it comes to the rubber bushings that hold the cab to the frame.
What is the status of the retired unit? I think there are still the ex-BHP SD70ACes of similar vintage still at Muncie.
Good to have you on this forum. I've been apreciating your CSX fleet updates elsewhere.
Saturnalia keep in mind, every 4-axle unit on CSX is an EMD now!
keep in mind, every 4-axle unit on CSX is an EMD now!
Almost, but not quite.
n012944 Saturnalia keep in mind, every 4-axle unit on CSX is an EMD now! Almost, but not quite.
GenSet - the most detested, poorest excuse for a locomotive that has yet to be devised - hated by crews forced to use them.
One, 1303, looks like this now:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/milwaukeebeernut/32125052122/
Not sure what the story is, but it appears to have been like that since at least last August.
Yes.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
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