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Gee we have surplus of freight locos so what mods do we need to make them passenger locos?

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Gee we have surplus of freight locos so what mods do we need to make them passenger locos?
Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Thursday, April 21, 2016 10:07 AM

I know about Head End Power but that could be taken care of by having a HEP car. Anything else like lights and handling and extra bells and whistles? I know that F units were duel use. Amtrak could free up double Geneses Units with freight parings.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, April 21, 2016 4:07 PM

CandOforprogress2

I know about Head End Power but that could be taken care of by having a HEP car. Anything else like lights and handling and extra bells and whistles? I know that F units were duel use. Amtrak could free up double Geneses Units with freight parings.

Freight units are geared for a maximum speed of 70 MPH - to change gearing would require different gears on both the drive wheels and traction motors.  I don't know if the trucks are engineered for sustained speeds in excess of 70 MPH.  I believe passengers uses a different schedule of air brake equipment than freight does, what their compatibility is, I don't know.

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Posted by 081552 on Thursday, April 21, 2016 4:45 PM

Interesting question

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Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Thursday, April 21, 2016 5:24 PM

Amtrak and commuter rail rarely go 70 mph so the gearing should not be a problem. It might be too much horsepower

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Posted by NorthWest on Thursday, April 21, 2016 5:41 PM

To my knowledge there are no additional light or bell requirements for passenger power.

All one would need to do is install new B trucks that can handle higher speeds; build a new lighter frame and fuel tank to lower the weight so that rail wear is less extreme, the trucks can handle it and the center of gravity is lower and install a new carbody with greater aerodynamics for higher speeds. Simple and easy!

This doesn't make any rational or economic sense, instead of building HEP cars simply build Siemens Chargers.  

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Posted by SD70M-2Dude on Thursday, April 21, 2016 11:25 PM

BaltACD
CandOforprogress2

I know about Head End Power but that could be taken care of by having a HEP car. Anything else like lights and handling and extra bells and whistles? I know that F units were duel use. Amtrak could free up double Geneses Units with freight parings.

Freight units are geared for a maximum speed of 70 MPH - to change gearing would require different gears on both the drive wheels and traction motors.  I don't know if the trucks are engineered for sustained speeds in excess of 70 MPH.  I believe passengers uses a different schedule of air brake equipment than freight does, what their compatibility is, I don't know.

I thought you could switch from freight to passenger mode by moving the cutout cock on the locomotive's brake stand (or change the setup on the computer screen if it's a newer unit).  That gets you graduated release, but it won't give you blended braking (dynamics and air being controlled together or something like that), and I'm not sure what the purpose of the second air hose is on passenger equipment now (used to be the communication line), I believe it's main reservoir air supply from the locomotive but am not sure.

And you would still have to regear the traction motors and wheelsets, and take into account that freight units are heavier than passenger units (and the aforementioned truck designs) and so may have a lower safe top speed anyway, just look at what happened with the E60s when Amtrak tried using them at high speed.

Of course if you only wanted to run your passenger trains at 65-70 MPH it might work out, MetroLink has been leasing BNSF units in place of cab cars lately and they haven't destroyed the system... yet.

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, April 22, 2016 6:59 AM

Several firms rebuilt freight power into suburban locomotives during the 1970's and early 1980's.  Most of them started out as GP40's or GP38's and the rebuilding was pretty extensive.  MBTA, NJ Transit, MARC and VRE were the primary users of such rebuilds.

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Friday, April 22, 2016 8:02 AM
According to my hubby it could be done with any say 4 axle power. If you could find say he called it a B-40-8W from the BNSF you might have a prayer. He said Amtrak has 20 units that are for the most part sisters to those.
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Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Friday, April 22, 2016 10:39 AM

Your hubby has spoken but what does your cat say?

ccc
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Posted by ccc on Friday, April 22, 2016 12:34 PM
Rarely? Have you been on the Chief in the deserts of arizona and california? Have you been on the Builder from Shelby to Chicago? Every Amtrak LD train travels over 70 MPH for a good portion or even the majority of their routes.
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Posted by jeffhergert on Sunday, April 24, 2016 10:39 PM

SD70M-2Dude
 
BaltACD
CandOforprogress2

I know about Head End Power but that could be taken care of by having a HEP car. Anything else like lights and handling and extra bells and whistles? I know that F units were duel use. Amtrak could free up double Geneses Units with freight parings.

Freight units are geared for a maximum speed of 70 MPH - to change gearing would require different gears on both the drive wheels and traction motors.  I don't know if the trucks are engineered for sustained speeds in excess of 70 MPH.  I believe passengers uses a different schedule of air brake equipment than freight does, what their compatibility is, I don't know.

 

 

I thought you could switch from freight to passenger mode by moving the cutout cock on the locomotive's brake stand (or change the setup on the computer screen if it's a newer unit).  That gets you graduated release, but it won't give you blended braking (dynamics and air being controlled together or something like that), and I'm not sure what the purpose of the second air hose is on passenger equipment now (used to be the communication line), I believe it's main reservoir air supply from the locomotive but am not sure.

And you would still have to regear the traction motors and wheelsets, and take into account that freight units are heavier than passenger units (and the aforementioned truck designs) and so may have a lower safe top speed anyway, just look at what happened with the E60s when Amtrak tried using them at high speed.

Of course if you only wanted to run your passenger trains at 65-70 MPH it might work out, MetroLink has been leasing BNSF units in place of cab cars lately and they haven't destroyed the system... yet.

 

Not all freight engines are equipped for passenger mode on the automatic air brakes.  I don't think I've seen the passenger position on any of our engines where the air brake set-up is controlled through the computer screen.

When we handle Amtrak detours or company passenger cars we use the freight position, even if the engine is equipped with the passenger position.  The only time I've ever used the passenger position was to compensate for a leaking equalizing reservoir.  

Jeff

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Monday, April 25, 2016 9:06 AM

CandOforprogress2

Your hubby has spoken but what does your cat say?

 

 

She is to busy trying catch the fish in the tank to notice.

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Posted by SD70M-2Dude on Monday, April 25, 2016 9:44 PM

jeffhergert
SD70M-2Dude
BaltACD
CandOforprogress2

I know about Head End Power but that could be taken care of by having a HEP car. Anything else like lights and handling and extra bells and whistles? I know that F units were duel use. Amtrak could free up double Geneses Units with freight parings.

Freight units are geared for a maximum speed of 70 MPH - to change gearing would require different gears on both the drive wheels and traction motors.  I don't know if the trucks are engineered for sustained speeds in excess of 70 MPH.  I believe passengers uses a different schedule of air brake equipment than freight does, what their compatibility is, I don't know.

I thought you could switch from freight to passenger mode by moving the cutout cock on the locomotive's brake stand (or change the setup on the computer screen if it's a newer unit).  That gets you graduated release, but it won't give you blended braking (dynamics and air being controlled together or something like that), and I'm not sure what the purpose of the second air hose is on passenger equipment now (used to be the communication line), I believe it's main reservoir air supply from the locomotive but am not sure.

And you would still have to regear the traction motors and wheelsets, and take into account that freight units are heavier than passenger units (and the aforementioned truck designs) and so may have a lower safe top speed anyway, just look at what happened with the E60s when Amtrak tried using them at high speed.

Of course if you only wanted to run your passenger trains at 65-70 MPH it might work out, MetroLink has been leasing BNSF units in place of cab cars lately and they haven't destroyed the system... yet.

Not all freight engines are equipped for passenger mode on the automatic air brakes.  I don't think I've seen the passenger position on any of our engines where the air brake set-up is controlled through the computer screen.

When we handle Amtrak detours or company passenger cars we use the freight position, even if the engine is equipped with the passenger position.  The only time I've ever used the passenger position was to compensate for a leaking equalizing reservoir.  

Jeff

CN's units are a bit different then, our GEVO fleet gives you the freight/passenger option on the air brake screen, but the SD70M-2s don't have it (one would think the computer system could be updated with it though).  All the older units with 26L or 30CDW systems have the passenger option too, but like you I've only seen it used as a backup, such as when the pressure maintaining feature fails.

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Tuesday, April 26, 2016 6:30 AM

So what abou the Auto Train?

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Posted by carnej1 on Tuesday, April 26, 2016 11:10 AM

CandOforprogress2

So what abou the Auto Train?

 

 Are you asking about the early days when the service operated GE U36Bs?

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Wednesday, April 27, 2016 7:43 AM
I looked thru my husbands extensive Trains Magazine collection again. The Auto train has freight style brakes on it not Passenger train brakes on it due to the Auto Carriers being on the rear. Their old U36B's when they went bankrupt where just bought up by the Seaboard Coast Lines as they where built to their Specs anyway. There was even something in there about the Superliner 2's having a brake changing valve for service on the Auto Train.
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, April 27, 2016 10:12 AM

Auto-Train's U36B's were built to SCL specs but were not picked up by SCL.  There were 4 U36B's (4013-4016) that were built but never delivered that eventually became Conrail 2971-2974.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Wednesday, April 27, 2016 12:55 PM

Amtrak had used freight locos in the late 1990s I had seen them at Acca Yard. also BTW anyone remember the auto-train wreck of 2002?

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Posted by ACY Tom on Wednesday, April 27, 2016 5:25 PM

Amtrak used some GP40's at some point. When aged and notoriously trouble-prone GE P30CH's were (thankfully!) removed from use on the Auto Train around the early 1990's, the Company obtained a few GP40's and used them as middle units in F40/GP40/F40 sets for a while until the first P40's arrived from GE.  The GP40's were obtained from a freight road, but I don't remember which one(s).  I also don't know what mods may have been made to the units to make them compatible with the F40's, except for pass-through HEP cables.  

The northbound Auto Train derailed around 5:00 p.m. on April 19, 2002 near Crescent City, Florida. Four passengers were killed, and several passengers and crew members were injured. The operating crew and onboard service crew 5 were roundly praised for their performance in the emergency. Some employees were so traumatized that they never returned to work, and there were some very serious consequences to some of those folks' private lives. On the other hand, some employees returned to work. Some are still working on that train. Quite a few have since retired and/or passed away.

The cause was a weakness in the roadbed, exacerbated by the passage of a heavy freight train shortly before no. 52's arrival at the spot. This rough location had been reported to CSX on a number of occasions prior to the date of the derailment. I don't know why CSX had not addressed it.

The locomotives on the wrecked train were P40's --- not freight units.

Tom

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, April 28, 2016 6:59 AM

The GP40's in question were AMTK 650-664, and were leased for two years from Helm (I think).  Most were of PC ancestry and were equipped with signal lines and HEP cabling to serve as second or third units in a lash-up.  They were also fully painted and lettered for Amtrak.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by aegrotatio on Monday, May 2, 2016 12:10 PM

CandOforprogress2

So what abou the Auto Train?

 

 

Today's Auto Train uses P40s that were rebuilt under the TIGER program after they were mothballed left to rot when the P42s came out.

Rarely you see one P42 in the consist but one P40 apparently needs to be present for the conventional "freight-style" braking system.

Another locomotive sometimes seen in the consist is the GE B32-8WH which I've overheard crews refer to as the "yard engine" as it switches cars in the yard.  One of these units and two P40s pulled our train coming north from Florida.

Fun things to know and tell. 

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Posted by ACY Tom on Monday, May 2, 2016 10:13 PM

B32-8WH's are normally used to switch the Auto Train at both the Lorton and the Sanford end of the line. When they are used as road power on that train, it is usually as a substitute for one of the normally assigned P40's, or to move an engine to/from shop work.

Tom

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