http://media.getransportation.com/sites/default/files/RGI-Dec-00-15-p28-31.pdf
Cold links aren't worth reading, in my opinion.
I did a cut and paste on the "cold link". It worked fine and is an informative read.
That is the best summary I have seen of the whole situation so far. I am somewhat surprised that GE were happy to put so much information about EMD and Cummins on their web site.
I am interested that EMD have indicated the reasons for going to fabricated trucks in place of castings (lighter weight, greater accuracy, better access). This information did not appear in the earlier reports in US Magazines.
Interestingly, GE didn't address the weight question, although reports are that the Tier 4 GEVO engine alone is 8000 Lbs heavier. That is also the first photo I've seen of the Tier 4 GEVO, and I'm relieved that it looks a lot like the equivalent Marine V250 which I've been basing my comments upon.
Thanks for posting it...
M636C
M636C That is the best summary I have seen of the whole situation so far. I am somewhat surprised that GE were happy to put so much information about EMD and Cummins on their web site. I am interested that EMD have indicated the reasons for going to fabricated trucks in place of castings (lighter weight, greater accuracy, better access). This information did not appear in the earlier reports in US Magazines. Interestingly, GE didn't address the weight question, although reports are that the Tier 4 GEVO engine alone is 8000 Lbs heavier. That is also the first photo I've seen of the Tier 4 GEVO, and I'm relieved that it looks a lot like the equivalent Marine V250 which I've been basing my comments upon. Thanks for posting it... M636C
With some railroads ordering 'Heavy' versions of the T4 power, I don't know if 'lightweight' trucks is much of a selling point.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD With some railroads ordering 'Heavy' versions of the T4 power, I don't know if 'lightweight' trucks is much of a selling point.
Better access and more accurate dimensions are always good and extra ballast can always be added.
But if you can only make "heavy" units, you might lose some of the market...
Has anyone read the builder's plate weights of CSX ET44 AH and BNSF ET44 C4 units?
In particular, what are the comparable weights of ES44 C4 and ET44 C4 units?
Have to wonder if EMD will offer the HTCR-4 on a 'heavy' version of the ACe-T4.
ML
For whatever reason, EMD choose to 'undersell' the fact that in essence, the T4 is a brand new design.
As for the fabbed trucks, I recall that a few years back, there were 'hiccups' in the EMD supply chain for the cast truck frames. At the time ,having viewed new ES44's and 70ACes side by side, both sets of truck frames bore the markings of a manufacturer located in Czechloslovakia.
In the US, there is at least one supplier (Bradken-the old LFM Atchison) who is capable of supplying cast loco truck frames-but I suppose that cost may have entered into the decision to source overseas.
In any event, MTA-NYC Transit embraced fabbed trucks for subway car application a while ago. Additionally, the LIRR DE/DM locos are equipped with fabbed trucks of Krupp (now Vossloh) design, which were also applied to the GE Genesis locos.
CPM500
M636C BaltACD With some railroads ordering 'Heavy' versions of the T4 power, I don't know if 'lightweight' trucks is much of a selling point. Better access and more accurate dimensions are always good and extra ballast can always be added. But if you can only make "heavy" units, you might lose some of the market... Has anyone read the builder's plate weights of CSX ET44 AH and BNSF ET44 C4 units? In particular, what are the comparable weights of ES44 C4 and ET44 C4 units? M636C
CSX's Heavy units have a weight of 432K pounds. Non-Heavy AC untis have a weight of 412K pounds.
The heavies have a axle loading of 72K. The non-heavies 66 2/3K.
YoHo1975Interesting that the 710 Meets the offroad emissions standards successfully. I'm curious, so the F125. Granted, it's higher horsepower at 4700HP, but if commuter agencies are willing to deal with Urea, why even bother with the Cat engine? Why not just fit the 710 with Exhaust Treatment? Does Urea not work with 2 Cycle engines? I would imagine that the reliability and familiarity of the 710 would have been a positive factor... Or is it that the 710 couldn't meet the RFP as EMD interpreted it?
I don't have the numbers handy, but I would expect that the 20-C175 is lighter than the 16-710G3, and the alternator would be lighter due to the higher engine speed for a given power output.
This would be a consideration for a four axle passenger locomotive, and I think the article quoted indicated a weight penalty for SCR anyway.
For a pasenger locomotive, higher power and lighter weight are both good features.
In response to the question about the weight of CSX's ET44AHs. . .
Their nominal weight is 432,000 pounds, which is the same as the railroad's CW44AH (i.e. AC4400CW) and ES44AH (i.e. ES44AC) high-tractive-effort units. However the actual weights of individual ET44AHs probably vary above and below the nominal weight. There's a 13,200-pound weight difference between the lightest CW44AH and the heaviest CW44AH; and that difference doesn't reflect the weight of fuel. So the 432,000-pound figure is basically the best approximation of what one of the high-tractive-effort units will weigh at any given time.
M636C That is the best summary I have seen of the whole situation so far. I am somewhat surprised that GE were happy to put so much information about EMD and Cummins on their web site.
The article is from Railway Gazette International, a British based Magazine similar to Railway Age. That's why EMD and Cummins are included.
JayPotter In response to the question about the weight of CSX's ET44AHs. . . Their nominal weight is 432,000 pounds, which is the same as the railroad's CW44AH (i.e. AC4400CW) and ES44AH (i.e. ES44AC) high-tractive-effort units. However the actual weights of individual ET44AHs probably vary above and below the nominal weight. There's a 13,200-pound weight difference between the lightest CW44AH and the heaviest CW44AH; and that difference doesn't reflect the weight of fuel. So the 432,000-pound figure is basically the best approximation of what one of the high-tractive-effort units will weigh at any given time.
In a similar vein, railroad freight cars are weighed when they are new and the lightweight is stenciled on the car and reported to UMLER. Over time, running repairs may change the weight of the car, however, the stenciled and UMLER weights remain the same. If the car gets a major rebuild or a major reconstruction account wreck damage it will be reweighed and the new lightweight will be stenciled and reported to UMLER. If a car is weighted light while in service, it's weight MAY be at variance with it's 'official' lightweight.
As far as the 710 vs. the C175, the article mentions the previously reported issue that the Tier IV 710 with SCR had inferior fuel consumption compared to the Tier 3 version. I know that that is as compared to the 1010 engine (and the Tier iv Gevo) but I imagine the C175 may be more fuel efficient as well...
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
When it comes to straight from the horses mouth,its really from the opposite end of the horse with GE
cat992c When it comes to straight from the horses mouth,its really from the opposite end of the horse with GE
Based upon the recent marketing efforts of EMD (including the awful videos that appeared around the time of the RSI show), I would say that EMD has their work cut out for them.
CPM500 cat992c When it comes to straight from the horses mouth,its really from the opposite end of the horse with GE Based upon the recent marketing efforts of EMD (including the awful videos that appeared around the time of the RSI show), I would say that EMD has their work cut out for them. CPM500
While I'd agree that EMD's recent marketing videos were pretty bad, GE has produced some pretty bad marketing videos themselves...
What matters is the locomotives themselves.
EMD are trying to sell a completely new product.
GE are implying that their locomotive is "more of the same" but there are a lot of very significant changes, not least a new engine that doesn't have any more in common with the former GEVO than the 1010 has with the 265....
GE have the reputation but their product still has to meet expectations.
I'm told that maintenance costs are expected to be much higher than the Tier 3 units...
Agree that the locomotives have to stand on their own merit...or lack thereof.
I find the choice of name for the EMD product to be curious-given that we both agree that the locomotive is a new design, with little carryover.
https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/11872137_10207111702184680_1285399622900838268_o.jpg
Here is the information of an ET44C4 that arrived to be tested with Ferromex.
This year will be arriving 50 new ge's for fxe :)
Robert_Ibanez https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/11872137_10207111702184680_1285399622900838268_o.jpg Here is the information of an ET44C4 that arrived to be tested with Ferromex. This year will be arriving 50 new ge's for fxe :)
That builders plate looks like its off a BNSF unit..... I've never seen a ferromex paint scheme with yellow stripes.
Entropy Robert_Ibanez https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/11872137_10207111702184680_1285399622900838268_o.jpg Here is the information of an ET44C4 that arrived to be tested with Ferromex. This year will be arriving 50 new ge's for fxe :) That builders plate looks like it's off a BNSF unit..... I've never seen a ferromex paint scheme with yellow stripes.
That builders plate looks like it's off a BNSF unit..... I've never seen a ferromex paint scheme with yellow stripes.
I think what he means is that GE sent this unit down to Ferromex for testing, perhaps to set parameters for the 50 units GE will be building for them... probably in no small part to establish whether Ferromex needs the tier 4 rating for 'enough' of their traffic to justify acquiring some. (The other thread on this indicates some good reason why this may be so.)
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