Only 2 units(5900-5901) were built. They started out as old GP38AC 'cores'. CP & KCS seem to be happy with theirs. CP just started taking delivery on the second batch from EMD.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
The rebuild simply involves taking out the 645 and control system, and dropping in a 710 and new control system. I'm not sure what there is to mess up, considering the success of the components in other locomotives. Can you describe the issues in more detail?
NS has been happy with the performance of its ECO rebuilds.
In addition to its two GP22ECO units, NS also re-powered GP38-2 5301 with a 710G3A ECO engine, and has been upgrading the engines on its GP59's with ECO kits as part of its GP59E capital rebuild program. Additionally, NS has started a new program to rebuild 25 of its GP50 locomotives as GP33ECO units.
Chris TothNSDash9.comAlso visit the NSDash9.com facebook page for the latest updates.
NorthWestThe rebuild simply involves taking out the 645 and control system, and dropping in a 710 and new control system. I'm not sure what there is to mess up, considering the success of the components in other locomotives. Can you describe the issues in more detail?
The KCS units use the original radiators. The radiators NS is using are IIRC split cooling, and more efficient, although the original radiators can handle the load. As of a couple weeks ago, conversions are still taking place.
UP9900 failed to make Tier IV with EGR, DOC and DPF, plus reliability issues.
NSDash9 NS has been happy with the performance of its ECO rebuilds. In addition to its two GP22ECO units, NS also re-powered GP38-2 5301 with a 710G3A ECO engine, and has been upgrading the engines on its GP59's with ECO kits as part of its GP59E capital rebuild program. Additionally, NS has started a new program to rebuild 25 of its GP50 locomotives as GP33ECO units. Chris TothNSDash9.comAlso visit the NSDash9.com facebook page for the latest updates.
Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak
YoHo1975Maybe to meet Tier 3? Or maybe there isn't enough room in the engine compartment given the more traditional Dynamics location.
The GP38s are now 2150 HP units though right? so they don't need as big a radiator core and It's 8 cylinders versus 12, so it uses half the space of the original V16. the 3150 HP v12 (using the EMD recipe) would need yet bigger radiators. Now, if they're really getting 3300 out of them. Then they are probably using something custom.
Also, as I understand it, the SD60Es are making 4000HP using16-710G3B-IC enignes. Which is not an official EMD designation to my knowledge. The original 60s had 16-710G3A engines without EFI and with the older turbo. So, I'd assume the blocks are the same, but new turbo, EFI and Intercooler.
The 60Es therefore would require far more advanced cooling. Something more like the flared radiators on the SD70M-T1 Or, the custom Intercooler that NS used. In either case, that rebuild is not remotely based on an ECO package.
YoHo1975 The GP38s are now 2150 HP units though right? so they don't need as big a radiator core and It's 8 cylinders versus 12, so it uses half the space of the original V16. the 3150 HP v12 (using the EMD recipe) would need yet bigger radiators. Now, if they're really getting 3300 out of them. Then they are probably using something custom.
That's a whole lot of arm waving there. The CP GP20ECOs have flared radiators that to my eye are larger than a GP50/60 series radiator. So I don't think you can make that assumption. Regardless of the intercooler. And presumably They're downgrading to a 3300 HP loco, not a 3000HP loco. The V12 and extra Machinery and the imposition of the dynamics. You're making some rash assumptions. If the radiator core on a GP50 was big enough to hit Tier 2 out of a 12-710, then the very same would be true on an SD60. More true in fact. And yet look at the SD59MX with brand new radiators. The intercooler takes up space too. Those SD60Es have oversized air intakes to accommodate that.
YoHo1975 That's a whole lot of arm waving there. The CP GP20ECOs have flared radiators that to my eye are larger than a GP50/60 series radiator. So I don't think you can make that assumption. Regardless of the intercooler. And presumably They're downgrading to a 3300 HP loco, not a 3000HP loco. The V12 and extra Machinery and the imposition of the dynamics. You're making some rash assumptions. If the radiator core on a GP50 was big enough to hit Tier 2 out of a 12-710, then the very same would be true on an SD60. More true in fact. And yet look at the SD59MX with brand new radiators. The intercooler takes up space too. Those SD60Es have oversized air intakes to accommodate that.
Which raises the question, why a Tier 3 rebuild? A GP50 is old enough to warrant a Tier 0. Again there are outside monies involved which may require Tier 3 so someone can get the tax credit.
YoHo1975 The GP38s are now 2150 HP units though right? so they don't need as big a radiator core and It's 8 cylinders versus 12, so it uses half the space of the original V16. the 3150 HP v12 (using the EMD recipe) would need yet bigger radiators. Now, if they're really getting 3300 out of them. Then they are probably using something custom. Also, as I understand it, the SD60Es are making 4000HP using16-710G3B-IC enignes. Which is not an official EMD designation to my knowledge. The original 60s had 16-710G3A engines without EFI and with the older turbo. So, I'd assume the blocks are the same, but new turbo, EFI and Intercooler. The 60Es therefore would require far more advanced cooling. Something more like the flared radiators on the SD70M-T1 Or, the custom Intercooler that NS used. In either case, that rebuild is not remotely based on an ECO package.
D.Carleton Which raises the question, why a Tier 3 rebuild? A GP50 is old enough to warrant a Tier 0. Again there are outside monies involved which may require Tier 3 so someone can get the tax credit.
The biggest reason is probably that a GP50 used in the kind of switching/secondary service that the ECO rebuild package is aimed at is not particularly fuel efficient. Even if a RR de-rates the 16-645 engine to 3000 or less HP in the GP50 the 8 cylinder 710 ECO is much better on diesel fuel consumption.
Of course, having said that, many railroads will continue to operate older 645 powered second generation Geeps without spending the capital outlay to re-manufacture them...
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
The NS GP33ECO rebuilds will meet Tier 3 and will be rated at 3,000 horsepower, thus the 33 designation.
NSDash9 The NS GP33ECO rebuilds will meet Tier 3 and will be rated at 3,000 horsepower, thus the 33 designation. Chris TothNSDash9.comAlso visit the NSDash9.com facebook page for the latest updates.
Makes sense.
I assume that in fact some of the older rebuilds they've done also meet higher tier levels, but that legally, tier 0+ is all that is requred on the engine plate.
Sorry for bumping an ancient thread, but since the GP33ECO's have gone into service I was looking around at coverage the forums had.
The repowers that EMD is doing typically involves a complete locomotive overhaul, as with the age of the prime mover, the other components are typically in disrepair. The entire locomotive is dissassembled down to the frame, blasted, paintined and reassembled with overhauled trucks, new bearings, EMD UTEX traction motors, cleaned fuel tank. New electrical locker is installed with EM2000 and EMDEC controllers in the locker. Install engine, EMD UTEX Main Generator, UTEX Aux Generator/blower. New EMD cooling hood is installed with Tier 1-3. Off to paint and test.
Tier 1-3 use split circuit cooling as covered before, NS went with Tier 3 I believe in part as part of a business case to recieve additional clean air funding. Realistically Tier 3 changes the injectors, camshafts in addition to along with larger radiators to lower the airbox temperatures.
So yes there's plenty of areas where an overhauled locomotive may have issues when first put into service.
NorthWest The rebuild simply involves taking out the 645 and control system, and dropping in a 710 and new control system. I'm not sure what there is to mess up, considering the success of the components in other locomotives. Can you describe the issues in more detail?
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.