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Locomotives and lightning

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Locomotives and lightning
Posted by denveroutlaws06 on Saturday, June 7, 2014 10:25 PM
if lightning hits a locomotive is it ok or not?
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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, June 8, 2014 4:37 AM

Almost always it is OK.   The steel is a good conductor to ground and so are the rails.   Could be a problem if the the locomotive was leaking fuel or oil.   Similar sitiuation to a car or truck,, excep they have rubber between them and the road.

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Posted by Dakguy201 on Sunday, June 8, 2014 5:06 AM

An auto manufactured ten years ago is likely to be immune to a lightning strike.  However, the auto of today is dependent upon its internal computer; and that computer can be fried by a strike resulting in a dead engine.  I wonder if the same process might take place in today's locomotives.  In particular with the coming of PTC, the operation of the engine's on board computers becomes critical.

Does anyone have direct experience with an engine that has been struck?  If so, what happened and how old was the unit?

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Posted by Randy Stahl on Sunday, June 8, 2014 7:09 AM

I've had experience with SD45s,C30-7s,SD40s,GP40,B39-8 and others that have been struck by lightning. The damage is very random. The carbody mostly acts like a faraday cage however when the moisture penetrates the wiring the possibility is that the entire electrical system is subject to damage. Semi conductors are usually blown, wiring is grounded, computers and frequency drives are damaged, the radio is out etc. I think that if the locomotive is dry and free from grounds it might be OK, however if the locomotive is soaking wet and or had an existing high or low voltage ground or a low hypot or meggar reading the damage can be severe. I have actually witnessed a lightning strike a locomotive (SD45) and the locomotive was fine, earlier that day I tested the resistance to ground and it had a high reading.

Concerning add on tech like PTC,GPS and what not. if the lightning strikes these roof mounted items you can count on them being damaged as well as downstream circuits.

 

I will say that lightning damage appears to be rare, I have seen maybe 1 event a year.

 

Randy

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Posted by Big Bill on Monday, June 16, 2014 3:56 PM

Even modern cars won't be affected by a lightning strike.

The current will stay on the exterior (assuming it's metal) and travel to the wheels (not tires) then to the ground. That's why we seldom see all non-metal cars (I know, Corvette), yet they don't seem to be bothered by lightning. There's still a path to ground without going through the electronics.

Locomotives have the same external path to ground.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, June 16, 2014 4:08 PM

I am not an EE or anything approaching it.

The couple in this article would disagree with there being no damage to vehicle electronics in a lightning strike.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2653336/Couple-speak-miracle-survival-horrifying-lightning-strike-drivign-the.html

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Randy Stahl on Monday, June 16, 2014 4:20 PM

Automobiles have some fundamental differences from locomotives. Chief among them is the fact the cars and trucks rely on chassis ground for half of the electrical circuit. Locomotives do not or at least shouldn't have anything grounded.

 

 I have seen really strange things happen on locomotives that took lightning hits. I would imagine that if lightning hit the brake grids things would burn out unless the grids were dry and well insulated. Who knows, hard to predict the results of that much power.

 

At least the Faraday cage protects the cab occupants.

 

Randy

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Posted by Big Bill on Tuesday, June 17, 2014 10:39 AM

I've seen some very strange things on video. The number of video cameras today will ensure that almost every conceivable action will be videoed at some time.

But we need to keep in mind that simply because something has happened, and we can prove that it happened, does not mean that something is, by any stretch of the imagination, normal, or the way things are supposed to happen.

Two headed snakes are not the norm, and in fact are very rare, but we have photos and videos of them.

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Posted by ndbprr on Tuesday, June 17, 2014 3:30 PM
What about static electricity. Does that build up?
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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, June 22, 2014 4:53 PM

BaltACD

I am not an EE or anything approaching it.

The couple in this article would disagree with there being no damage to vehicle electronics in a lightning strike.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2653336/Couple-speak-miracle-survival-horrifying-lightning-strike-drivign-the.html

I wonder if being near a power line had anything to do with the great damage.

Johnny

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, June 22, 2014 6:26 PM

Lightning   "Sprites" can be very interesting.  Coca cola did not like their brand name taken.

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, June 29, 2014 8:25 PM

However, sprites existed several centuries before the basic Coca-Cola was mixed. The company has no basis whatsoever for a claim to exclusive use to the word.

Johnny

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Posted by erikem on Monday, June 30, 2014 11:41 PM

IIRC, sprites from thunderstorms were first observed in the 1990's. About 10 years before that, some hams were comparing reports of VHF contacts via sporadic E-skip with weather reports. The plots showed that reflection areas in the E-layer were centered over very large thunderstorms - the sprites are likely the mechanism that generates the intense ionization needed to reflect signals at 144MHz.

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Tuesday, July 1, 2014 3:44 AM

Sprites are also those things that UFO conspiracy theorists like to show leaving our atmosphere in NASA videos.

Dave

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, July 1, 2014 1:56 PM

In the mid 1980s our crew observed not a sprite but very large lightning strokes up into the stratosphere. This occurred about 35 - 40 off the coast of Savannah. Were told that we were making it up because there was no way for the strokes to ground themselves.  Oh would I like to beat this over the heads of said people.   did not really read confirmation until mid 2000s.

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Posted by ValorStorm on Friday, July 4, 2014 11:31 AM

This was the exact answer. Big Bill perfectly explains here, in layman's terms, the Faraday Cage Effect. It's worth mentioning again that rubber tires are irrelevant as it concerns lightning.

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Posted by BigJim on Saturday, July 5, 2014 4:59 AM

Big Bill
Even modern cars won't be affected by a lightning strike.

Well, that is total BS! Watch this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-b8ekDzjQE

.

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Posted by Big Bill on Saturday, July 5, 2014 10:17 AM

As I said earlier, we also have videos of two-headed snakes.

The fact that we see videos like the one referenced by you on the news is because they *are* news, just like the two-headed snake.

What you don't see are the videos of cars hit by lightning that don't have such spectacular damage, because that's not news.

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Posted by BigJim on Saturday, July 5, 2014 7:21 PM

Big Bill
What you don't see are the videos of cars hit by lightning that don't have such spectacular damage, because that's not news.

As you don't see the cars that do get spectacularly zapped that are not videoed.

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