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Will MBTA ever purchase a fleet of ALP45DP's?

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Will MBTA ever purchase a fleet of ALP45DP's?
Posted by zkr123 on Saturday, May 3, 2014 6:53 PM
Would MBTA ever invest in a fleet of ALP45DP's? Since they travel down to Providence and there are enough branch lines they seem like a great fit.
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, May 5, 2014 6:59 AM

MBTA has no real need for dual-power locomotives so a fleet of ALP45DP's would be an unnnecessary added expense compared to a comparable number of MP36's.  Metro-North and NJ Transit purchased dual-power locomotives because of tunnel and terminal restrictions, especially the Hudson River tunnels and the approaches to Grand Central Terminal.  MBTA has no similar restrictions.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, May 5, 2014 8:24 AM

Back in 2002 when Amtrak electrified New Haven - Boston, Amtrak asled MBTA to contribute to the cost of substations in Massachusetts to insure adequate capacitiy for both Amtrak and Purple Line trains,   MBTA told Amtrak they would continue with diesel power.

Of course, once there is a North Station - South Station tunnel, the matter may be reconsidered.   If that ever happens.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, May 5, 2014 10:35 AM

MBTA has a chicken and egg problem.

1.  There are 12 separate routes each with different operating characteristics.  BOS - PVD electrified is essentially flat so the better acceleration of ALP-45s under wires may not be needed as much.  No other commuter agency except SEPTA ( ? ) has as many different lines to downtown. 

2.  Unless we know the rider ships of each line a very expensive dual mode electric / diesel needs careful financial analysis.  The number of commuter cars required on each route may  vary greatly.

3.  The only need for MBTA is the very unlikely event of diesel fuel shortages.

4.  NJ Transit can use them for any route outages of their wires or for PM.

5.  More likely SEPTA should probably get some to cover those electric routes that in the next 20 years are going to fail or need CAT replacement and upgrades.  The old PRR & RDG lines certainly are close to their final operational use. SEPTA could use them on regular motor pulled rush hour trains unless required for the above.

 

NOTE:  MBTA probably has a lower passenger density per mile than most other lines such as MARC, SEPTA, NJT, LIRR, MNRR

 

 

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Posted by pajrr on Tuesday, May 6, 2014 8:29 PM

An ALP45DP has a price tag of about $10 million each. That is a big investment for something that isn't really needed.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Tuesday, May 6, 2014 9:09 PM

Dual power locos are inherently inefficient and are only necessary where a route covers both non electrified trackage, and trackage that is necessarily electrified, such as a tunnel.  MBTA could use straight electric locos or EMUs for the Providence line.

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Posted by McKey on Wednesday, May 7, 2014 1:44 AM

Sounds like an outrageously high price to me! Sounds like your second hand markets are not working well. You can get a brand new Vectron, TRAXX or similar modern modular powerful dual or quadruple system loco for this price in Europe.

This is a variant of Vectron:

pajrr

An ALP45DP has a price tag of about $10 million each. That is a big investment for something that isn't really needed.

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Posted by McKey on Wednesday, May 7, 2014 1:54 AM

I just checked the pricing form the latest deals: you can get two Vectrons (1 electric system and two diesel modules inside. so this is a hybrid) for (any sizable order) and since TRAXX is less expensive (and less versatile design) three of them for 10 million USD.

Above a German or Swedish (only number could tell which it is) TRAXX F140 AC2 locomotive. They always have double electrical systems, which are used even here on this train enroute from Germany to somewhere in Sweden. The picture is from Odense, Denmark where I spotted the train running under 25 kV AC systems. Germany and Sweden use older 15 kV AC systems. 

McKey

Sounds like an outrageously high price to me! Soudns like your second hand markets are not working well. You can get a brand new Vectron, TRAXX or similar modern modular powerful dual or quadruple system loco for this price in Europe.

This is a variant of Vectron:

pajrr

An ALP45DP has a price tag of about $10 million each. That is a big investment for something that isn't really needed.

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Posted by Buslist on Wednesday, May 7, 2014 8:55 AM
Blue streak 1

1. There are 12 separate routes each with different operating characteristics. BOS - PVD electrified is essentially flat so the better acceleration of ALP-45s under wires may not beneeded as much. No other commuter agency except SEPTA ( ? ) has as many different lines to downtown.

Slightly OT but take a count of METRA lines in Chicago, I count 13, plus tenant NICTD for a total of 14.
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Posted by NorthWest on Wednesday, May 7, 2014 8:44 PM

The price that I have seen is about $7 million each. Cheaper than $10 million, but still extremely expensive. Can anyone verify the actual cost? And the cost of a MPXpress locomotive? I unfortunately don't have the data.

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