Prior to the ALP-45DP now being introduced on New Jersey Transit, have there been any North American locomotives that were designed from the outset to be dual-power (straight electric/diesel-electric) locomotives? I ask this since the FL9 and P32 look like they were modifications of existing diesel-electric designs.
GE built several dual and triple power (electric, diesel/gas, battery) in the 20's and early 30's. Since these were pretty much custom designs, one could argue that they were designed from the outset as dual or triple power.
- Erik
CSSHEGEWISCH Prior to the ALP-45DP now being introduced on New Jersey Transit, have there been any North American locomotives that were designed from the outset to be dual-power (straight electric/diesel-electric) locomotives? I ask this since the FL9 and P32 look like they were modifications of existing diesel-electric designs.
The ALP-45DP itself is a modification of an existing locomotive design: the ALP-46 Electic units that NJT already operates a fleet of...
True the design has been greatly changed, but so was the FL9 vs. a stock F9 (i.e the reat A-1-A truck, etc.)
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
EMD designed the DE/DM30AC series from the outset to be a third rail dual power loco for the Long Island Rail Road. Although the DE's were delivered first, the design of the DE included the provision to add the third rail equipment to make the DM.
Bogie_engineer,
Good to see you posting again!
Interesting to see the contrast in modifications, the ALP-45DP is a straight electric modified to include a diesel engine while the FL9 and P32 are diesel-electrics modified for straight electric operation.
The ALP-45DPs are really fascinating machines. I can't wait to see one. But, I also can't believe that something that complex and expensive was the best solution to the problem.
The FL9, in fact, was an adaptation, but not of an F9. EMD had designed an the FL9 to be a replacement for motive power on long distance trains. The longer frame and A-1-A rear truck allowed for more fuel and water - and a longer operating range. The only problem was that the RRs were not interested in spending scarce cash replacing the Es and Fs on trains that were bleeding red ink, so the FL9 sat on the drawing board.
The adaptation consisted of adding taps to the DB grids so they could act like accelerating resistors on an MU car plus field shunting to the traction motors and a series of contactors and rats-nest of a control system to allow it all to function at full speed on 600 VDC. There was also a mini motor driven air compressor in addition to the enigne driven Gardner-Denver.
It worked - sometimes. I hope the ALP-45DPs can do better.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
CSSHEGEWISCH Interesting to see the contrast in modifications, the ALP-45DP is a straight electric modified to include a diesel engine while the FL9 and P32 are diesel-electrics modified for straight electric operation.
I have read that Bombardier is designing a conventional diesel electric variant of the ALP-45/46 series as well..
Amtrak gets the use now of dual power. Often night Trs #66 & 67 BOS - WASH run with an AEM-7 leading and a P-42 next. Any dead spots in the CAT for whatever maintenance is powered thru by the diesel. A nice solution.
blue streak 1 Amtrak gets the use now of dual power. Often night Trs #66 & 67 BOS - WASH run with an AEM-7 leading and a P-42 next. Any dead spots in the CAT for whatever maintenance is powered thru by the diesel. A nice solution.
I witnessed such a consist this very morning on the way to work except the P-42 was leading the AEM-7(which had its pans down), this was on the NEC less than a mile north of the Providence,RI station..we had some bad storms overnight in the area which caused sporadic power outages so that may have been why..
carnej1 I witnessed such a consist this very morning on the way to work except the P-42 was leading the AEM-7(which had its pans down), this was on the NEC less than a mile north of the Providence,RI station..we had some bad storms overnight in the area which caused sporadic power outages so that may have been why..
Someone who has access to the operation of this kind of lash-up : It would be very enlightning to learn how MU operation is done and if AEM-7 PAN control can be from P-42? Also if AEM-7 is leading can the P-42 diesel be put on line from AEM? How is P-42 started? How is HEP selected? Is there an engineer or someone else in the trailing unit? Also if AEM is leading what is speed limit of towed P-42? More questions than answers?
Someone who has access to the operation of this kind of lash-up : It would be very enlightning to learn how MU operation is done and if AEM-7 PAN control can be from P-42? Also if AEM-7 is leading can the P-42 diesel be put on line from AEM? How is P-42 started? How is HEP selected? Is there an engineer or someone else in the trailing unit? Also if AEM is powering train what is speed limit of towed / pushed P-42? More questions than answers?
They run the modified P42 in lead, the AEM-7 has no controls to start or stop the P42 but the modified P42 can control the AEM7 including pan up pan down from P42 controlstand.
believe about 6 P42's working out of New Haven pool were modified.
The speed on a train is always based on most restrictive piece of equipment, so if that happens to be the P42 the speed would be 110 mph unless otherwise restricted.
oltmannd The ALP-45DPs are really fascinating machines. I can't wait to see one*snip*I hope the ALP-45DPs can do better.
The ALP-45DPs are really fascinating machines. I can't wait to see one*snip*I hope the ALP-45DPs can do better.
Once they start testing on property, I can be the official photo provider since the Morris & Essex and Montclair-Boonton Line (where they will begin testing and revenue service) is less than five minutes from my house.
As for their success, I've heard that testing of 4501 out in Pueblo is going relatively smoothly. That doesn't mean it's completely smooth sailing, but at least it hasn't exploded.
blue streak 1 carnej1: I witnessed such a consist this very morning on the way to work except the P-42 was leading the AEM-7(which had its pans down), this was on the NEC less than a mile north of the Providence,RI station..we had some bad storms overnight in the area which caused sporadic power outages so that may have been why.. Someone who has access to the operation of this kind of lash-up : It would be very enlightning to learn how MU operation is done and if AEM-7 PAN control can be from P-42? Also if AEM-7 is leading can the P-42 diesel be put on line from AEM? How is P-42 started? How is HEP selected? Is there an engineer or someone else in the trailing unit? Also if AEM is powering train what is speed limit of towed / pushed P-42? More questions than answers?
carnej1: I witnessed such a consist this very morning on the way to work except the P-42 was leading the AEM-7(which had its pans down), this was on the NEC less than a mile north of the Providence,RI station..we had some bad storms overnight in the area which caused sporadic power outages so that may have been why..
NJT's P40's were modified with a pan up/down switch because all fuctions must be able to be controlled from the leading locomotive, unless the other locomotive(s) has someone onboard (when the ALP is leading, there is always a mechanical guy riding the P40). I would imagine that a handful of Amtrak's P42s were also modified in the same fashion.
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