Was looking at some steam Locomotive types, and came across a series of elderly photos ( Taken in 1911) of a brand new locomotive type, then on a system tour. It was a 2-10-10-2 called a Santa Fe.
Link to photos of Santa Fe #3009 at Winfield, Ks(1911). http://www.ausbcomp.com/~bbott/WINRR/wrsfd8.htm
Link to Santa Fe Type Specs:
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/2-10-10-2/atsf.shtml
Specifically, the tender is a type I do not recognize. I've seen Vanderbuilt and Centipede and some very conventional looking types, but the photos show a type that has a sloping rounded side and apparently a flat bottom profile. In my mind it sort of resembles what was called a "whaleback" construction used in some old Great Lakes boats and a few ocean-going type ships.
Does anyone know what these type tenders were called?
Were they widely used? What railroads favored them?
Any info, or ideas are appreciated. Thanks, in advance!
samfp1943 Specifically, the tender is a type I do not recognize. I've seen Vanderbuilt and Centipede and some very conventional looking types, but the photos show a type that has a sloping rounded side and apparently a flat bottom profile. In my mind it sort of resembles what was called a "whaleback" construction used in some old Great Lakes boats and a few ocean-going type ships.
Your description was right on target. See the following link and you'll see it was called a "Whale Back Tender". Unfortunately, there are no pictures of Santa Fe tenders, only Southern Pacific.
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/tenders/#whaleback
Mike
MJChittick samfp1943 Specifically, the tender is a type I do not recognize. I've seen Vanderbuilt and Centipede and some very conventional looking types, but the photos show a type that has a sloping rounded side and apparently a flat bottom profile. In my mind it sort of resembles what was called a "whaleback" construction used in some old Great Lakes boats and a few ocean-going type ships. Your description was right on target. See the following link and you'll see it was called a "Whale Back Tender". Unfortunately, there are no pictures of Santa Fe tenders, only Southern Pacific. http://www.steamlocomotive.com/tenders/#whaleback
Here is a link to photo that sparked my question:
http://www.ausbcomp.com/~bbott/WINRR/WRSF8G.JPG
ATSF's Santa Fe #3009 ( 2-10-10-2) on its maiden trip around the ATSF system in 1911; shown at Winfield,Ks.
Aside from CRI&SP and SP were there any other railroads that used this type ? Was it rimarily a Western innovation?
It was a 2-10-10-2 called a Santa Fe.
Sam,
The "Santa Fe" type is a 2-10-4. BTW, Lionel is producing a model of this 2-10-10-2 loco with this tender.
.
Since this type of tender was only used with oil-burning locomotives, that explains why they would show up on the SP & ATSF. I believe those were the only two railroads with significant numbers of oil-burners at that time.
BigJim It was a 2-10-10-2 called a Santa Fe. Sam, The "Santa Fe" type is a 2-10-4. BTW, Lionel is producing a model of this 2-10-10-2 loco with this tender.
Hmm, and all these years I thought the 2-10-2 was the Santa Fe and the 2-10-4 was a Texas type.
BigJim The "Santa Fe" type is a 2-10-4. BTW, Lionel is producing a model of this 2-10-10-2 loco with this tender.
And here's a link to the Lionel catalog:
http://www.lionel.com/products/catalogs/catalog_2009_v2/index.cfm
GUYS:
The initial mistake was mine!
After checking the Whyte Locomotive designator...
The 2-10-10-2 has no specific name applied to that wheel arangement.
The 2-10-2 is a Santa Fe and the 2-10-4 is a Texas type. The linked photo shown in one of my posts to this thread shows the Topeka-built 2-10-10-2 at a large reception at the depot in Winfield, Kansas in 1911. It was the first of its type and was touring the Santa Fe System. I had not noticed a tender built in the style of the one behind the locomotive, and that was the genesis of my original question.
Here is the link: http://www.ausbcomp.com/~bbott/WINRR/WRSF8G.JPG
The whaleback style was, I think, a fairly unusual type, even back then. Coal being the primary fuel used and mined here in the Midwest.
Thanks,
That doesn't look like a whaleback to me. A whale back tender was cylindrically shaped from front to back. Like a soup can cut in half. This one is more squared, with a sloping rear section, probably just for looks. I wouldn't describe it as a slopeback tender either, as those were used on small switchers for better rear visibility.
Check out the Deming Sub by clicking on the pics:
I did some more digging. These 10 locos were built in 1911 by joining two 2-10-2 type locos. They were junk apparently because between 1915 and 1918 they were all converted back to their original 2-10-2 configurations. I hate when companies make locos with such limited life spans. I can't use it unless I model the SF in southern CA between 1911 and 1918.
Back to the tender. Assuming the Lionel is a reasonable replica of the prototype, the designers were apparently planning on running this monstrosity backwards as much as forwards. I'm basing this on the full size tender light, tender cow-catcher and lowered/sloped back tender. So, IMHO, if you have to class this tender as something, I would say it's a slope back.
El Cap;
I guess it just goes back once again to my original comments. It was an unusual type tender on a hugely unusual tender for its time. And to also show one more time that truth is stranger than fiction!
Right you are Mike. I realized my mistake about 120 miles up the road, then completely forgot about correcting my mistake.
I did a "Wikipedia" search on Central Vermont's 2-10-4s ("Texas-type") a while back. CV had ten of them, the largest locomotives in New England. Other users were the PRR and the T&P. CB&Q had 18, but called them "Colorado-types". Canadian Pacific had 37 and called them "Selkirks". There may have been other users, but I didn't note them.
That type of tender is called a "Turtleback" not whaleback, which is different as described in a post above.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
Turtle back? Never heard of it. Any other railroads have these? And what is the difference between a turtle back and slope back?
I'm guessing it was built for looks - maybe so it appeared more modern than its contemporaries.
Aside from the curved sides, it really looks more like a switcher tender than a road engine tender.
It's not a whale back.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
el-capitan I did some more digging. These 10 locos were built in 1911 by joining two 2-10-2 type locos. They were junk apparently because between 1915 and 1918 they were all converted back to their original 2-10-2 configurations. I hate when companies make locos with such limited life spans. I can't use it unless I model the SF in southern CA between 1911 and 1918. Back to the tender. Assuming the Lionel is a reasonable replica of the prototype, the designers were apparently planning on running this monstrosity backwards as much as forwards. I'm basing this on the full size tender light, tender cow-catcher and lowered/sloped back tender. So, IMHO, if you have to class this tender as something, I would say it's a slope back.
According to Worley, they were turtleback tenders. And, yes, they ran backwards a lot. Forwards up the hill in helper service, and backwards down the hill for the next train as there was no place at Summit to turn them. The tenders went on to a long life behind various 2-10-2's of the Santa Fe, and not just the ones that came from the 2-10-10-2's.
Phil
Timber Head Eastern Railroad "THE Railroad Through the Sierras"
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