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Rotating windows

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Rotating windows
Posted by 3cflvi on Wednesday, April 1, 2009 1:02 PM

Hi

 

What other locomotives use the rotating window similar to UP 604?

 http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=101554&nseq=9

 

These windows apparently are marine wipers: http://www.b-hepworth.com/pages/cvs.html

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, April 1, 2009 2:08 PM

These windows can be found on locomotives that are assigned to snowfighting duties.  Also note the icicle breakers attached.

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Posted by Kootenay Central on Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:18 PM

.

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:22 PM

Motor-driven rotating-pane windows were commonly fitted to almost everything that runs on rails in Northern Japan - even some steam locomotives had them.

Chuck

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Posted by 3cflvi on Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:24 PM

Thanks. I think they are neat to look at. I didnt realize they went back that far. What a great looking engine

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Posted by carnej1 on Wednesday, April 1, 2009 5:49 PM

That type of system is fairly common in marine applications. I'll bet high seas in the North Atlantic would rip any "windshield wiper" right off the window...

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Posted by bubbajustin on Friday, April 3, 2009 5:56 PM

I don't get it. What is a rotating windo and, what the heck are these big apratusie's on these locomotives mounted on the top of the cab?

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Posted by espeefoamer on Friday, April 3, 2009 6:12 PM

SP SD9s assigned to snowfighting service had them as well.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, April 3, 2009 7:51 PM

bubbajustin

I don't get it. What is a rotating windo and, what the heck are these big apratusie's on these locomotives mounted on the top of the cab?

Bubba, when you spin a disk fast, anything that is not securely fastened to it is thrown off. Thus, when a glass disk that is mounted on a window is spun, it will throw snow and/or water off and make it possible for the engineer (or the helmsman on a ship) to see ahead. I'm sorry, but I cannot answer your question about the apparatuses mounted on top of the cab. Someone else will have to step in here.

Johnny

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Posted by Ibeamlicker on Friday, April 3, 2009 11:27 PM

They break icicles off tunnel openings or any overhand where ice hangs down.

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Posted by narig01 on Friday, April 3, 2009 11:31 PM

 The bars on the top of the cab are ice breakers.  frequently in tunnels you get water dripping and when it is below freezing it forms icicles.any way to keep the icicles from doing damage they put those bars on top of leading equipment to knock the ice off the ceilings.

rgds ign

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Posted by bubbajustin on Saturday, April 4, 2009 6:58 PM

Oh ok that makes a lot of sence now about the windows! But what the heck is a little icicle going to do to a big ginormus boxcar/locomotive? The breaker does make the loco visually eye-catching though.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, April 4, 2009 7:46 PM

When railroads transported automobiles in open multi-level equipment, in the winter trains handling the equipment routinely had a car similar to the one pictured below on the head end of the train.

Break the ice in tunnels and overhead bridges before the autmobiles got there.

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Posted by bubbajustin on Saturday, April 4, 2009 8:07 PM

Cool car, but now everthing is enclosed.

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Posted by rvos1979 on Saturday, April 4, 2009 8:48 PM

Justin, many-pound chunks of ice tend to break things (windows, cooling fans, other apparatus on top of engines and cars, people).  The idea of the ice breaker bars is to keep it from happening.  One would not want to be under a falling icicle, they tend to do bodily damage.

Randy in Monee, IL 

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Posted by bubbajustin on Sunday, April 5, 2009 12:31 PM

Oh yah there are fans on top of the loco's now aren't there! Ok I now fully understand. Thanks! If an icicle falls on you... HUMAN SHISHKAOB!

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Posted by Alan Robinson on Monday, April 6, 2009 5:13 PM

Justin, you seem skeptical of the ability of a large ice chunk to cause damage to a locomotive or crew member. A number of years ago some kids hung a bowling ball on a rope from an overhead bridge above the rail line running on the east side of the Hudson River. They then stood there to watch a train come along and hit that bowling ball, as they thought it would be "fun" to see what happened. The ball went through the engineer's window and killed him instantly. Some fun, huh.

A chunk of ice hanging from a tunnel roof can quickly grow as large as a bowling ball and when it lets go over a passing train the consequences could be just as serious. Yes, the railroads do pay attention to this hazard.

Alan Robinson Asheville, North Carolina
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Posted by 3cflvi on Tuesday, April 7, 2009 9:01 AM

Alan,

 

Since this is used for snowplow service it makes sense to have the protection you describe. I was wondering are the widows covered up completely or just covered with the screen?

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Posted by Alan Robinson on Tuesday, April 7, 2009 11:24 AM

The particular Union Pacific diesel unit portrayed in the photo is used to push either a rotary plow or a wedge plow. Union Pacific has several rotaries although none have been used in the last ten years or so, as far as I know. When they are used, the rotating blades on these plows are powered either by a diesel engine within the plow body or they have been "electrified" and are powered by an old F7B unit with its traction motors removed and the power from its generator rerouted to the plow's electric motor. In any case, all of these units, whether rotary or wedge, are dependent on some form of motive power to push them into the snow to be removed. This requires significant tractive effort if the snow is deep and/or icy in order to force the snow/ice into the chute leading to the cutting blades. In heavy snow, several diesel units would probably be required. This pictured locomotive would be the lead unit and would be equipped with the rotating window so that the engineer could see the operating plow ahead. This would be more important in the event of a lighter snowfall when a wedge plow rather than a rotary would be used, as visibility from the locomotive would be even more important.

One of the earlier posters was correct that windshield wipers would be a likely casualty in this heavy service, and in any case would not do a very good job of keeping visibility clear.

In steam days, the rotary pilot would ride inside the rotary and would sit with his head sticking out of a small windowed raised cab just behind the rotating blade and tilting chute. It was his job to observe the actual plowing operation, watch for downed trees, rocks, ice, snowslide hazards and anything else that would present a danger. He would signal the engine crews of the pushing locomotives and of the plow itself by means of the whistle on the plow whether to go forward, stop, back up and so forth. The engineers would in turn signal using their whistles if there were problems with any of the locomotives.

One of the big problems with steam plows was water supply. A plow working in deep or icy snow would go through a tenderful of water pretty quickly. This would require a trip to the nearest tank. Since plows didn't ride well (the front truck was unsprung to prevent excessive bouncing during plowing) such a trip would be a slow affair. The pushing locomotives could suffer from the same problem as well and this could be disaster. If a locomotive ran totally out of water it couldn't move even if there was plenty of coal to keep the boiler warm. If there was no way to get the plow train to a tank, the fires would have to be dropped, the boilers drained and all the steam lines, too, unless it was calm enough for the crews to shovel snow into the tanks to supply water. All in freezing temperatures. Imagine if this were the road's only rotary what a mess this would cause!

Alan Robinson Asheville, North Carolina
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Posted by carnej1 on Tuesday, April 7, 2009 11:48 AM

Alan Robinson

The particular Union Pacific diesel unit portrayed in the photo is used to push either a rotary plow or a wedge plow. Union Pacific has several rotaries although none have been used in the last ten years or so, as far as I know. When they are used, the rotating blades on these plows are powered either by a diesel engine within the plow body or they have been "electrified" and are powered by an old F7B unit with its traction motors removed and the power from its generator rerouted to the plow's electric motor. In any case, all of these units, whether rotary or wedge, are dependent on some form of motive power to push them into the snow to be removed. This requires significant tractive effort if the snow is deep and/or icy in order to force the snow/ice into the chute leading to the cutting blades. In heavy snow, several diesel units would probably be required. This pictured locomotive would be the lead unit and would be equipped with the rotating window so that the engineer could see the operating plow ahead. This would be more important in the event of a lighter snowfall when a wedge plow rather than a rotary would be used, as visibility from the locomotive would be even more important.

One of the earlier posters was correct that windshield wipers would be a likely casualty in this heavy service, and in any case would not do a very good job of keeping visibility clear.

In steam days, the rotary pilot would ride inside the rotary and would sit with his head sticking out of a small windowed raised cab just behind the rotating blade and tilting chute. It was his job to observe the actual plowing operation, watch for downed trees, rocks, ice, snowslide hazards and anything else that would present a danger. He would signal the engine crews of the pushing locomotives and of the plow itself by means of the whistle on the plow whether to go forward, stop, back up and so forth. The engineers would in turn signal using their whistles if there were problems with any of the locomotives.

One of the big problems with steam plows was water supply. A plow working in deep or icy snow would go through a tenderful of water pretty quickly. This would require a trip to the nearest tank. Since plows didn't ride well (the front truck was unsprung to prevent excessive bouncing during plowing) such a trip would be a slow affair. The pushing locomotives could suffer from the same problem as well and this could be disaster. If a locomotive ran totally out of water it couldn't move even if there was plenty of coal to keep the boiler warm. If there was no way to get the plow train to a tank, the fires would have to be dropped, the boilers drained and all the steam lines, too, unless it was calm enough for the crews to shovel snow into the tanks to supply water. All in freezing temperatures. Imagine if this were the road's only rotary what a mess this would cause!

 It's interesting to note that the small SP(UP) rotary fleet that operated in the Sierra Nevadas (particularly Donner Pass) where converted to diesel electric operation yet still retained part of their original steam system; a system of jets which blew steam in front of the plow to keep ice from building up. This was considered important enough that when the plows were converted from their original configuration vapor steam generators (the same as were used on passenger diesels to supply heat to older equipment) were installed. I believe these are still on the UP roster but haven't been used in some years...

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Posted by spikejones52002 on Sunday, April 12, 2009 1:10 PM

Note the ice breaker is in the center of the car.

When It hits ice the ice is deposited into the hopper and not built up over or inbetween the rails.

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