NS SD40E rebuild program

[carnej1]

Norfolk Southern has been undertaking several major rebuilding projects recently including the SD40E program which involves remanufacturing SD50 units into microprocessor equipped 3,000 HP locomotives. I have read that NS is utilizing 16-645E3 engines "harvested" from retired SD40s. What I don't understand is that given that the prime movers are apparently being completetly rebuilt (i.e new power assemblies ect.) why not reuse the 16-645F blocks(crankcases) out of the 50 series units and remanufacture them to E3 specs? After all NS has been rebuilding GP50s into GP38-2s using the original diesel engine..... Is it a technical issue?

[oltmannd]

Not that I know of - at least none that are beyond Juniata's capability.  If you're sitting on a bunch of used 16-645E3s, maybe it just a few bucks cheaper to rebuild them in kind than re-do the F frames.  Maybe saves some machining on the end plates, etc.  Juniata is all over saving a buck here and a buck there - sometimes at the expense of the diesel terminals....

[edbenton]

Also the F series 645 has that stupid Copper oil feed line for the top end that loves to break even replaced with Steel pipes it is in a very bad spot.  These engines are being rebuilt for Pusher service which means High notch settings and MAX vibrations the E series is more reliable in that style of service than the F model and therefore less likely to stall a train on the hill.

[oltmannd]

There are no lube oil lines on the top deck of EMD engines that I'm aware of. Do you mean the fuel line jumpers?

[CNW 6000]

Does anyone know 'roughly' or otherwise how much more efficient the SD40Es are compared to SD50s?  Or is this a mechanical reliability thing?

[edbenton]

One of the LARGER Problems with the F series was the top side oil lines were EXTERNAL not just drain passages back to the blocks.  Some Engineer got the bright idea to run a metal line OUTSIDE the block to return oil to the sump instead of just havingit return like normal engines internally.  I know that the Santa Fe had Major issues with the GP50 and the 40X's when they first came out with oil system failures.  For a long time on the Santa Fe the GP 50 had to be run with SD40-2's or older as protection power behind it to cover in case the oil system let loose.  Also Trains did a article on the 50 series I can not remember the Issue but they covered the oil system Issues along with the Traction motor cables connectors in it also.

[Odie]

Didn't the SD50's have a lot of complete crankcase failures specifically related to that oil line issue?  I figure that NS probably wants to run as far away from that power plant as possible and put something more reliable in the rebuilds. The 50's had a relatively short lifespan when compared to the SD40-2 counterparts.  For the longest time, our local yard had a pair of SD50's just for yard work. 

[carnej1]

Odie

Didn't the SD50's have a lot of complete crankcase failures specifically related to that oil line issue?  I figure that NS probably wants to run as far away from that power plant as possible and put something more reliable in the rebuilds. The 50's had a relatively short lifespan when compared to the SD40-2 counterparts.  For the longest time, our local yard had a pair of SD50's just for yard work. 

And yet IINM the GP38M-3s NS is remanufacturing from GP50's still use the F series crankcase with the turbocharger replaced by a roots blower. Wouldn't they still have the oil line issue?

[edbenton]

IIRC it was the EARLY Phase 1 GP and SD50's that had the major oil line problems.  Also remember you remove the Turbosupercharger and since that is what EMD runs and drop it to a simple roots style blower you do get rid of ALOT of the external lines needed for the oiling system.  Think about it the Turbo and most of the ones I worked on as a Truck Mechanic or had as a OTR driver you had a Seperate feed line right off the pump from the Filters and coolers then you had a return line back to the sump.  The ones I worked on and with were MIN 1/4 inch wall thickness drawn steel lines and had Double flares on the pressure line side and with compression with Orings on any return side fittings.  This is with 350-600 HP diesel engines.  Now you add another 2000-3000+ HP that sees service once every 90 days and has to put up with major shock damage and vibrations.  Yet the engineers at EMD chose to go with a thinner wall tube to save a few cents on the design of the F series engine.  Why screw with sucess they are still screwing around with something that was right and trying to fix what was right 30 years ago.

 

Remember the Engineers creed especially Mechaincal ones IF IT IS NOT BROKE ADD OR CHANGE$ THINGS TIL IT FREAKING DOES.  I swear they live by this.

[edbenton]

IIRC it was the EARLY Phase 1 GP and SD50's that had the major oil line problems.  Also remember you remove the Turbosupercharger and since that is what EMD runs and drop it to a simple roots style blower you do get rid of ALOT of the external lines needed for the oiling system.  Think about it the Turbo and most of the ones I worked on as a Truck Mechanic or had as a OTR driver you had a Seperate feed line right off the pump from the Filters and coolers then you had a return line back to the sump.  The ones I worked on and with were MIN 1/4 inch wall thickness drawn steel lines and had Double flares on the pressure line side and with compression with Orings on any return side fittings.  This is with 350-600 HP diesel engines.  Now you add another 2000-3000+ HP that sees service once every 90 days and has to put up with major shock damage and vibrations.  Yet the engineers at EMD chose to go with a thinner wall tube to save a few cents on the design of the F series engine.  Why screw with sucess they are still screwing around with something that was right and trying to fix what was right 30 years ago.

 

Remember the Engineers creed especially Mechaincal ones IF IT IS NOT BROKE ADD OR CHANGE$ THINGS TIL IT FREAKING DOES.  I swear they live by this.