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Questions about the use of friction gel on subway outdoor tracks

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Questions about the use of friction gel on subway outdoor tracks
Posted by MX3000 on Thursday, October 30, 2008 2:14 PM

This is maybe not the right place to ask if anybody has any experience on the use of friction gel which is waterbased.

Why I'm asking is because i work with the new subway trains in Oslo, Norway and we are having problems on certain parts of the line where the trains are sliding uncontrolling. On the new trains we don't have sand or magnetic trail brakes, only ABS brakes and when there is no friction we have a system that looses up the brakes so we don't get square wheels. The use of friction gel doesn't seem to work and we now drive old materiale with a sanding system in front of the trains, this is not a good solution.....

The problem is most serious just when it starts to rain and in the fall when the leaves cover the tracks. We wash the track every night and we have sand blasted the rails to, but we are not able to do that every night.

Does anybody have any suggestions on what we can use?

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, October 30, 2008 4:58 PM

MX3000:  If you can find it there is an article in the Nov 2008 Railroads illustrated page 25 about a new compressed air method to clean rails.  It is on CSX's ES44AC new deliveries (CSX designation ES44AH).(called "Rail Blaster"). LIRR and MNRR have also tried this out on a couple of locomotives.

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Posted by Randy Stahl on Thursday, October 30, 2008 5:41 PM

We have the same issues with what you are describing with freight trains . When the leaves fall and coat the rail we have difficulty with tractive effort and excessive wheel slip . We tried a coating of gel but like you said , it washes away in a short time. We looked at applying the railblaster (called a snowblaster in many cases) but the coating left by leaves and pine sap didn't blow away . The problem goes away in a heavy rain but reappears as soon as the rain stops. The early mornings are the worst , a light dew forms on the railhead and places the particles in suspension causing very poor rail conditions. One way we have partially solved the issue is by isolating the lead engine and using good ol fashioned sanders , letting the lead engine dry off the railhead. With a transit car I must give the advice that was in the rulebooks of many US street railway systems (Motormen must use caution stopping on slippery rail) . The best and cheapest fix is to slow your operators down until the season passes.

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, October 31, 2008 10:23 PM

It is amazing that the time honored application of sand is still the most effective means of increasing wheel/rail traction.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by MX3000 on Saturday, November 1, 2008 4:04 AM

 The trains are delievered by Siemens in Vienna and they refuse to to put sandbox's on the trains after an accident they got blaimed for some years ago that involved sand. But we are getting magnetic rail brakes on the next sets that are coming, luckily!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by ndbprr on Friday, November 7, 2008 2:44 PM

Well anything water based is going to dissolve when it rains.  That much is a given. Anything else that remains on the rails that is sticky will eventually get coated with debris like leaves and render that useless.  Have you tried mounting wire brushs in front of the wheels to sweep the debris off the  track?  There is a company in the USA (Carestone) that makes roll polishers which are spring loaded honing stones that prevent pick up.  Something like that could possibly work also.  AN air jet in front of the wheel could possibly blow the debris off also. The Presidents class trolley cars here in the USA that were designed in late 40's and just recently retired had magnetic brakes on the trucks.  They were spring loaded and magnetized when needed which would draw them down to the rails.  The more power was supplied the more they gripped stopping the trolley cars.  Yet they were extremely smooth when stopping.

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Posted by aegrotatio on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 8:46 AM

 Very interesting subject.  This is a huge problem on commuter rail in the NY Metro area and also, of all places, on the Washington DC Metro.  I believe they both "solved" it with a software-based solution in their respective braking systems, but all that does is try to prevent the flat spots and has the unfortunate side-effect of increasing braking distance (and slowing trains).

Fortunately for NY MTA and the WMATA, the problem occurs for that month or two when the leaves fall, and if it's a dry autumn the problem is much shorter.

I recognize this doesn't address problems that don't involve leaves but I hope it helps.

 

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:58 PM

MX3000

 The trains are delievered by Siemens in Vienna and they refuse to to put sandbox's on the trains after an accident they got blaimed for some years ago that involved sand. But we are getting magnetic rail brakes on the next sets that are coming, luckily!!!!!!!!!

Don't worry...in time they will get blaimed and sued for an accident that involves not having sand available.  It is the nature of the beast.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by wjstix on Friday, November 14, 2008 10:08 AM

Maybe somebody's sneaking some lutefisk on to the rails, making them slippery?? Whistling

Stix
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Posted by erikem on Saturday, November 15, 2008 12:40 AM

wjstix

Maybe somebody's sneaking some lutefisk on to the rails, making them slippery?? Whistling

 

Uff da!

Wouldn't that be a violation of one of the Geneva Conventions wrt chemical or biological warfare. I would also imagine that the lutefisk would be pretty corrosive. 

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Posted by aegrotatio on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:07 AM
Topical topic! It affected Baltimore light rail: http://www.trains.com/trn/default.aspx?c=a&id=4272

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