Dan
Lyon_Wonder wrote:Except that Dash 9s are no longer in production. A current comparison would be SD70M-2 vs DC Gevos.
I realize that, but this was a "I like both locos" kind of thing.
the SD70M-2 is pretty much about as powerful as the crash 9. however it was built to tier 2 specs and has lower emissions. it also has the headlights mounted on the cab, giving it a tougher stronger look. this of course does not include the demonstrator models, which i think had noselights to show that EMD still offers that as an option.
SD70M-2s and crash 9s are both DC locomotives as well. though the SD70M-2 still has its inverter block present on the conductor's side.
Dan, i suggest watching ACEs too. they look the exact same as SD70M-2s. but CN doesnt own any. UP, CSX, FXE, KCS, BNSF, and MRL do. (MRL's and half of BNSF's with noselights...blugh) KCS's fleet looks very nice with the black paint. you might like their GEVOs too as they look almost the same as crash 9s. save for the invertor block, some additional vents, and that added flare in front of the radiators all GEVOs have. but the cab is the same
hope that helps!
-Max
FEC also has a small fleet
Your friendly neighborhood CNW fan.
silicon212 wrote:All fine, except the SD70M-2 does not have inverter blocks anywhere on it. Inverters are used to convert DC into variable-rate AC for AC traction motors.
Maybe he ment to say that both the SD70ACE and M-2 use the same style and length car body, unlike the SD70MAC and M. GE is using this same type of commonality philosophy with the AC and DC Gevos too. The ES44DC has the space where the inverters are supposed to go on the AC locos too.
Well the true answer it depends. I'm not an expert by any means but being a mech. engineer student, I'll take a crack at it. But before we discuss retrofitting -9W or AC4400 (or even the SD70s), also think of it in terms of the railroad. Until the T2 locomotives showed up, they were the newest road power on the railroad. The railroad industry needs to move more and more cargo every year and when they talk about capacity, its more locomotives for more trains, and more rails for more trains, or trying to move their trains faster (combination of the first 2). You wouldn't want to take essentially your best locomotives and upgrade them as this takes a substantial amount of time (). If you look at the increases and decreases in traffic, older or more unique locomotives are moved to the deadlines. Unless there is a downturn in traffic, don't expect them to get any upgrades beyond what is possible during routine inspections. Also builders tried to crank out as many non-T2 locomotives as possible so they wouldn't have partially built locomotives that they could not deliver and thus retrofit them.
I think T2 specs also apply (at a different level) to older and rebuild/upgraded locomotives as well.
In the case of the GE C44-9W/AC4400, GE designed the new GEVO 12-cylinder diesel engine. The GE C44-9W had a V16. You'd have to modify the frame of the locomotive and come up with a new engine mounting pattern which can have its own implications (like vibrations). Previous designs had substantial space between the exhaust stack and the radiator wings, which was eliminated by increase in length of the radiator section. I think this was done to accommodate the air-to-air heat exchanger and water-to-air heat exchanger fitted to these locomotives to improve emissions. It might be easier to change the control systems but keep in mind the control system from the T2 has to be redesigned for the -9W or AC4400 and a railroad probably couldn't do that in house as that stuff is GE proprietary information. Also there maybe the issue of space for the control processors and any additional/different sensors (location/type), different locomotive performance characteristics to consider, etc...
Lord Atmo wrote:the SD70M-2 is pretty much about as powerful as the crash 9. however it was built to tier 2 specs and has lower emissions. it also has the headlights mounted on the cab, giving it a tougher stronger look. this of course does not include the demonstrator models, which i think had noselights to show that EMD still offers that as an option.
CN's newest order has nose mounted headlights.
http://www.railroadforums.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/50013
i saw that pic before. i thought that was a doctored image.
that is one ugly locomotive. ugh....
Lord Atmo wrote:C40-8M. one of GE's ugliest creations. BCOL owned quite a few of those. they're the SD50/60Fatasses of the GEs
LOL! Just be glad that CNW didn't have any of those...
enr2099 wrote: Lord Atmo wrote: the SD70M-2 is pretty much about as powerful as the crash 9. however it was built to tier 2 specs and has lower emissions. it also has the headlights mounted on the cab, giving it a tougher stronger look. this of course does not include the demonstrator models, which i think had noselights to show that EMD still offers that as an option. CN's newest order has nose mounted headlights. http://www.railroadforums.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/50013
Lord Atmo wrote: the SD70M-2 is pretty much about as powerful as the crash 9. however it was built to tier 2 specs and has lower emissions. it also has the headlights mounted on the cab, giving it a tougher stronger look. this of course does not include the demonstrator models, which i think had noselights to show that EMD still offers that as an option.
The CN SD70-2M's suck and are the worst out of all the "new" units. They are so noisey and don't have the comfort us crews care for.
E. Hunter,
What are some of those things that crews want that these units don't have?
ugh i am THRILLED CNW never got any fat draper units.
but we all know if they did and only 2 of those remained as the "last of CNW", everyone but me would be fanning them like they were the gods of the railroad
suddenly 8646 doesnt look so bad....heh
regarding the new CN SD70M-2s, the older ones have cablights apparently because CN tacked that order onto an NS order to save money. so they got SD70M-2s built to NS specs
Max, Max, Max.......
The only reason CN did that was because they're going to merge with NS! Didn't you know that?
Honestly, I'd take the C40-8M over th SD70M-2 any day.
GE Dash 9-44CWhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Dash_9-44CW
EMD SD70 serieshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_SD70M
Lord Atmo wrote:oh well. i prefer my locomotives skinny with only TWO "eyes" and no tiny goofy "mouth"
LOL only you Max, only you.
CNW 6000 wrote:Other than emissions, how do these locos compare? For some reason I just 'noticed' the SD70M-2 and it intrigues me. How would they stack up?
Well, one is london scrap and the other is typical solid GE technology. I have not heard very good things about the SD70ACe's from the engineers here in Indy. I have heard of several engineers on the NS that the bell on the M-2's will start when the horn is blown and then it won't stop ringing. then you have to call out a maintinence person to get it to stop ringing. All of the comments on the GEVO's have been good, except that some railroads have MORONS running there motive power purchasers and they get the desktop control stands.
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