Greetings,
Here on the forum there is a lot of attention paid to certain locomotive models such as the SD40-2, the SD45, and the many GE models, especially the newer ones. I have noticed though, that the EMD 50 and 60 series doesn't seem to get mentioned very often. It also seems that you don't see too many of them in service, or at least I don't see many in my railfanning trips. I've always had the feeling that these models were flawed in some way and not liked by the railroads. Is this true? Were there very many of these models made for any of the railroads and are they still in service or gone? What did the train crews think of these engines?
Happy railfanning!
Gregory
The 50s were a bit of a mess. The 645F3 engine never really worked out. It ran at 950 RPM in order to get the extra 600 HP over the 645E3 engine. This led to a whole bunch of problems, some big ans some small, none of which earned the 50 series locos any friends. Add on the very complex TTL-based Super Series wheel slip system - which frequently failed back to WS10 (40 series) wheelslip control, and you had a locomotive that could never be counted on to haul it's rated tonnage.
The 60 series were much better. The 710 engine runs at 900 RPM and isn't nearly as buggy as the 645F3. The microprocessor controls are much more straight forward and simpler. And, many of the Super Series bugs were worked out.
As far as I know, all the Conrail purchased 60 series locos are still out working for NS and CSX.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
A lot of the 50 series problems were in the lubrication system and microprocessor controls. I thought the engine did OK at 950 once those other bugs were worked out, but by that time, it was too late to fix the reputation.
I've never heard particularly bad things about the 60 series besides the Geeps having a rough ride, but that's true of most 4 axle units. Still, I'm no Engineer. I think the problem was that the 50s left a bad taste in people's mouths, GE started making a good product and then the 70s came on and were much better.
As stated above, the SD50's (and GP50's, for that matter) were wrought with problems. The quirks were eventually worked out and CSX's SD50's still soldier on today (most of the origonal 125?). Recently, they have begun derating them to 3000 HP and calling them SD50-2's.
CSX only ordered 10 SD60's new. As far as I know they were fine, but at the time CSX was more interested in GE's Dash 8's. CSX aquired more SD60's when they split Conrail with NS. I believe even Conrail only had about 30 or 40 of them. NS ordered SD60's new, too, though I wouldn't know how many. NS has many GP60's, which are loved by the crews as they are the ultimate, smooth riding 4 axle. The ones crews hate are the GP60M's. the widecab is too heavy and weighs down the front of the engine and makes for one rough ride.
Canadian Pacific owns several SD60s and a few SD60Ms by way of Soo Line, and they are an everyday sight in Milwaukee. From what I can tell and have heard from employees the engines are kept in pretty good condition and thus are at least deciently reliable. They also seem to be very versitile too. I've seen them on everything from locals to grain drags to high-speed intermodals.
Conrail's 135 "Staggers Act" SD50s were a different story. These were spit-and-bailing-wire engines, leaky and quirky to a fault. Now this was old hat to seasoned workers at Conrail who'd kept Northeastern railroading going despite quite a lot of hardship. There were far, far better engines in Conrail than these, but there had also been far worse.
Cheers!
~METRO
I remember the first batch of SD50s at Conrail started to have engine trouble right out of the gate. The head pot seat rings started wearing and the engines were sucking oil out the exhaust. This happened because the crab/stud retaining system for holding the heads against the top deck used on 645E3 engines wasn't getting the job done at the higher HP rating - the heads were wiggling against the top deck. (the head pot seat ring is a giant brass "washer" the sits between the head flange and the top deck of the engine frame). Several band-aid fixes were tried - rotating the seat ring, adding a rubber gasket to the seat ring - but it wasn't until the plate crab system of the 710 engine that the trouble was fixed.
EMD eventually came out with a "get well" package that included a new engine speed schedule (930 RPM) and reduced HP.
oltmannd wrote:I remember the first batch of SD50s at Conrail started to have engine trouble right out of the gate. The head pot seat rings started wearing and the engines were sucking oil out the exhaust. This happened because the crab/stud retaining system for holding the heads against the top deck used on 645E3 engines wasn't getting the job done at the higher HP rating - the heads were wiggling against the top deck. (the head pot seat ring is a giant brass "washer" the sits between the head flange and the top deck of the engine frame). Several band-aid fixes were tried - rotating the seat ring, adding a rubber gasket to the seat ring - but it wasn't until the plate crab system of the 710 engine that the trouble was fixed. EMD eventually came out with a "get well" package that included a new engine speed schedule (930 RPM) and reduced HP.
*shakes head* Small wonder that GE took over the number 1 spot. Conrail did try to show some real love for their SD50s though with both their Gulf War I troop support, and US Olympic cycling trials paint jobs applied to single engines in their SD50 fleet.
the SD60 just happens to be my favorite locomotive. the GP60 was also pretty cool. however i dont care one bit for anything else in the EMD 60 series.
several roads still operate SD60s today. BNSF runs those oakways all over the system still. and UP never got rid of theirs. SOO line was probably the most well-known for their SD60s. they still run some of theirs. but many have had their leases expire and were returned to the leasers. i know for sure that NS still runs their SD60s. i saw one come through Altoona only last friday.
leasers are still running pretty much all of theirs. HLCX has several ex-CNW SD60s (sadly, almost all of them are sporting UP cat **** yellow paint now. but a few of them got HLCX blue).
as for other units in the SD60 series, UP still has their SD60Ms. as does BNSF. CN still runs their SD60Fs. but thankfully never in my area. and i'm pretty sure NS and CSX still run the CR SD60Is.
so yes, there are SD60s all over the place. if it's GP60s you want, UP has a bunch of them running in Texas and other areas. some still in full SP and SSW paint. and BNSF has lots of GP60Ms and GP60Bs running around. possibly GP60s too in ATSF yellowbonnet paint, but i'm not positive
hope that helps. and happy fanning
Your friendly neighborhood CNW fan.
My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/JR7582 My Flickr Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wcfan/
I believe that CSX de-rated at least some of their former Conrail SD50s down to SD40-2 specs. Basically from what I understand they are now SD40-2s with the superior internal layout of a third generation EMD. Kinda best of both worlds I guess.
Cheers!~METRO
Yes, BNSF still has quite a few GP60s still in Santa Fe blue and yellow. Saw the 8746 the other day. CSX still has straight SD60s too, just not that much. Cant forget INRDs SD60s either.
Alec
Well here's the units I saw in Rochelle. They where a pair of SD60Ms that stoped and wait for a BNSF train. Must of been a work train as they where haulin' ballast cars.
Here is a SOO SD60 on the UP. Now that was strange. They also ahd liek 4 more SD40-2s infront of it.
4884bigboy wrote: As stated above, the SD50's (and GP50's, for that matter) were wrought with problems. The quirks were eventually worked out and CSX's SD50's still soldier on today (most of the origonal 125?). Recently, they have begun derating them to 3000 HP and calling them SD50-2's.CSX only ordered 10 SD60's new. As far as I know they were fine, but at the time CSX was more interested in GE's Dash 8's. CSX aquired more SD60's when they split Conrail with NS. I believe even Conrail only had about 30 or 40 of them. NS ordered SD60's new, too, though I wouldn't know how many. NS has many GP60's, which are loved by the crews as they are the ultimate, smooth riding 4 axle. The ones crews hate are the GP60M's. the widecab is too heavy and weighs down the front of the engine and makes for one rough ride.
The de-rated SD50s I have seen were rebuilt from inherited Conrail Units. Conrail had 28 SD60s. 75 SD60Ms, and 80 SD60Is. AS far as I know (unless accidents have claimed some) all are still inservice to either CSX or NS. NS bought 151 SD60s.
The Indiana railroad SD60s are ex-SOO. CP retured the first order (6000-6020) upon their lease expiration. 11 went to the Indiana RR , CEFX got the rest. I saw two of the CEFX units in trains around KC a week ago.
The C&NW SD60s now wear reporting marks for CRIX and HLCX. One was also purchased by LA commuter carrier Metrolink for a rebuilding project.
Don't forget the 46 owned by KCS.
Because of power sharing on the CN many SD50s and SD60s have rolled through in the past 20 years. They have had the schemes of Oakway, SOO, CNW, BN, UP, and CSX. There were even the rare appearance of KCS and D&RGW units. Get on a line that shares a lot of power and you will see the SD50 and SD60.
Andrew
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
SD60M wrote:I know BNSF still uses their SD60Ms but not around here i think they use most to haul ore. UP i know has many 60M's. I have only seen a few GP50's all in BN paint on manifest trains i have yet to see one in SF paint. I have never seen an SD50 but didnt the Rio Grande like these units? The straight SD60's may be going out but the 60M's are probably going to last unless theres another environmental thing, but who knows i have only seen one SD60M in UP paint and these are my favorite units i hope they dont start fading away!
Andrew Falconer wrote: Because of power sharing on the CN many SD50s and SD60s have rolled through in the past 20 years. They have had the schemes of Oakway, SOO, CNW, BN, UP, and CSX. There were even the rare appearance of KCS and D&RGW units. Get on a line that shares a lot of power and you will see the SD50 and SD60.Andrew
Don't forget that CN also has cowl-body SD50F and SD60Fs.
I think, maybe, that one of the reasons that the SD60s get over looked is that the SD50s got so much bad press as the problems became apparent that by the time that settled down EMD was already announcing the 70 series.
I suppose that because the SD60s didn't have the problems of the 50 series, and the fact that they looked just identical to the SD50s, or the huge single orders of the 70 series (BNSF 70MACs, UP 70Ms) they are notable for not being notable. They do what they were made to do and do it well without a fuss. Just what the builder intended.
bushhog8fan wrote:Ok maybe a stupid question but what is the diference in a Gp-59 and a Gp-60? I know norfolk southern has some Gp-59's
The difference is the prime mover. The GP59 uses a 3000-hp 12-710G3 turbo 12-cyl, the GP60 uses a 3800-hp 16-710G3 turbo 16-cyl. Outwardly, they look identical. Going back to the GP49 and GP39s, they would tend to have two radiator fans and a smaller radiator, but the GP59 uses the GP60 three-fan and radiator design.
neil300 wrote: they looked just identical to the SD50s
they looked just identical to the SD50s
hood doors aside
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