I am involved in two major projects. The Medway Queen Preservation Society, a 1924 built paddle steamer (at Gillingham Pier) and The Border Counties Railway (The North British Railway's Waverley Route). Both are expensive projects. In the longer run the Medway Queen will be the more expensive to operate than the Border Counties Railway.
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
It takes a lot of money to preserve a steel ship in salt water. Look at the USS Texas which is pretty much ready to sink. I've heard that the Queen Mary in Long Beach is in pretty rough shape. A locomotive can sit in a shed like an old car and it won't deteriorate to the point that it isn't restorable, unless it sits outdoors and even then it can be brought back. Think of all the locos saved from Dai Woodham's Barry scrapyard. The fact that so many were saved is why the British heritage railway scene is as vibrant as it is.
It's interesting at the difference between British locomotive preservation and their naval preservation. While they've saved some of their very old ships (Warrior, etc.), nothing much from the past 100 years besides for HMS Belfast. Warspite or the last Invincible would've been good candidates, IMHO.
7j43kI wonder why there never was a New and Improved Modele Deux. Or would that be a Dash Deux?
I don't know myself and can't find out why, but I'd say the simplest explanation is the best. There was probably no money available. It was around this time the French army was overhauling it's artillery arm to the new Griveaubal System, and that was going to be expensive!
Loved the video! The original of Cugnot's vehicle is in a museum in Paris.
Interesting reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas-Joseph_Cugnot
Also interesting, as illustrated in a very nice photo, was how linear motion was transformed to rotary motion.
I wonder why there never was a New and Improved Modele Deux. Or would that be a Dash Deux?
Ed
54light15No wonder the British required a man with a red flag to precede road vehicles, until 1904 anyway.
Flintlock76I guess parallel parking the thing would have been out of the question too.
There was another replica of the vehicle made in the mid-Thirties, which can be seen (briefly being crashed) in a German movie about steam history.
Note that the steering-bar arrangement is not just a double tiller -- think of it as like an early version of a bus steering wheel. Even with the appallingly high polar moment of inertia on that front wheel, I think an adequate ratio for turning (and very low road kickback) would be present. As with automobiles, a little familiarity is good.
The problem more likely revolves around the lack of proper suspension, braking, or a somewhat Reliant-Robinish predilection to tip if turned too quick. ISTR there was a problem with the lack of steam generation combined with fixed cutoff -- it used the same mass flow whether or not 'towing' something.
CSSHEGEWISCH Give Cugnot a break, he did design a traction engine that worked reasonably well. Steering gear would have to come later.
Give Cugnot a break, he did design a traction engine that worked reasonably well. Steering gear would have to come later.
Hey, I have nothing but respect for the good Capitaine, the French army's engineers and artillerymen were the best in the world at the time, bar none.
And as I said, sometimes someone's got to push the technology a bit to see where it can go. Everyone knew about stationary steam engines at the time, Cugnot tried to see if he could make one do just a little more. Even though the design was a failure you've got to hand it to him for trying.
54light15Regarding the Cugnot, I've heard that it had a habit of crashing into walls which might have been one reason why they weren't adopted by the French army.
I guess parallel parking the thing would have been out of the question too.
No wonder the British required a man with a red flag to precede road vehicles, until 1904 anyway. Regarding the Cugnot, I've heard that it had a habit of crashing into walls which might have been one reason why they weren't adopted by the French army.
The Tampa Bay museum is amazing, I've met Alain Cerf several times. He's quite a character. Anyone who would build a Cugnot would have to be.
And then there was Capitaine Cugnot, a French army engineer, who in 1769 came up with a self-propelled steam carriage. Didn't work out for various reasons but hey, sometime's you've just got to push the technology just a bit to engineer some progress.
Here it is in replica.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP_oQHYmdRs
Can you imagine a fleet of those things hauling 24-pounder siege guns around the Yorktown battlefield?
More specifically, what came in between 1801 and 1804, when instead of a least-expense low-speed colliery tug, you actually take advantage of a high-pressure engine:
http://www.steamcar.net/brogden-1.html
Note the reasons given for its 'failure to thrive' -- a little reminiscent of Emett's machine that did the work of three men and a boy. But still... imagine if there had been a 'good roads' movement associated with MacAdam, or if vulcanizing had been developed a couple of decades prior...
In the animated film "Triplets of Belleville" from 2003, a Trevithick locomotive is accurately depicted. Part of a dog's nightmare as I recall.
Thanks for those links NorthBrit! It's neat to see those folks at the museum take that Trevithick replica out and play with it once in a while!
Even more interesting to think about the world the original came into in 1804, 216 years ago, and how incredibly the world would change in the rest of the 19th Century.
(quote user="Overmod"]
Is there a museum specializing in early road steam, specifically including Trevithick's from 1802 and Goldsworthy Gurney's work?
[/quote)
These may help Overmod
https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/people/cp31639/goldsworthy-gurney
https://museum.wales/articles/2008-12-15/Richard-Trevithicks-steam-locomotive/
David
Yes. A lovely engine. There are a number of engines that visit and are run on the railway.
Beamish Museum has another railway section with very early locomotives.
The museum is well worth a visit (when this Covid stuff ends).
What a neat little tank engine! Like something from "The Isle of Sodor."
Yeah, a silly thing to say, but I couldn't resist!
ORNHOOThank you for posting pictures of the Ravenglass and Eskdale. I rode the "Ratty" in the seventies when I was staying with friends in Beckermet. We also rode the Lakeside and Haverthwaite, I hope it is still running.
My pleasure ORNHOO. I try to capture any steam running whenever I can. Mostly it is diesels these days; even on 'Laal Ratty'. The Lakeside & Haverthwaite Railway is still in operation.
Three views of steam engines at Beamish Museum, County Durham, UK.
Flintlock. The fence does deter anyone. The old wooden fence almost disintegrated and it was great to see engines much closer (than now).
54light15. Interesting story indeed. Thanks for telling.
Not all steam engines are standard gauge. Here are two pictures of the 15 inch gauge Ravenglass & Eskdale Railway in Cumbria.
https://ravenglass-railway.co.uk/about-us/
'River Mite' built in 1966 passing at Irton Road.
'Northern Rock' built in 1976 on the turntable at Dalegarth Station. The finance to build the locomotive came from the Northern Rock Bank. Hence the name.
I've been to the NYMR three years ago- that is a serious railway. Those Yorkshiremen don't screw around!
I was at Penn Station in New York with some friends in 1969 when the Flying Scotsman was there. A guy involved with it said how it was almost lost at sea during a storm as it was deck cargo on the ship. In 2004 I was at the museum in York and talked to a guy and mentioned that. He said that it might have been him that told me as he was on the North American trip too.
charlie hebdo Thanks David. I love the Whitby - Grosmont - Goathland area and the NYMR. Visited several time, starting in 1968 before they started.
Thanks David. I love the Whitby - Grosmont - Goathland area and the NYMR. Visited several time, starting in 1968 before they started.
Hi Charlie. My pleasure. When I worked in Leeds (many years ago) a colleague would visit the Whitby Pickering line and take several photographs. When the North Yorkshire Moors Railway opened he left work and joined NYMR.
Years later my work took me to the area. Loved the scenery, but could never get to see the railway.
Now retired I can visit preserved railways in my area. (I could before lockdown)
Beautiful engines, no doubt about it! Form and function blended perfectly, kind of like a Spitfire or a Mosquito.
Man, they sure mean business with that fence! Looks like something out of a horror movie!
Grosmont Station on The North Yorkshire Moors Railway.
Here is London and North Eastern Railway (LNER) Thompson Class B1 No. 1264
Here are two views of NER locomotive 2238 also at Grosmont and information of the locomotive.
https://www.nymr.co.uk/lner-q6-0-8-0-no-63395
2238 running round the coaches.
and about to depart for Pickering.
In 2018 after a long overhall, Flying Scotsman was back 'in service'. Her first run was London Kings Cross to York. That day, near Peterborough, some 'idiots' stood on the track to take pictures as the train was approaching? The train had to stop and Police had to come and order the people away.
Immediately afterwards new railing had to be built along the side of the track to stop people trespassing on the railway. one such place where new rail was built was at Newton Hall, Durham City. Before the new fece it was a great place to take pictures. Now, as can be seen, not so.
Here is Flying Scotsman at Newton Hall on its way to Edinburgh, the week after the Peterborough incident.
Thanks for your comments everyone. 'Tornado' was built in 2008 by The A1 Steam Locomotive Trust. The number 60163 is the follow on number after the last Class A1 was built. The following gives a little history of the locomotives
https://www.a1steam.com/history/
Here is Tornado last year (2019) taking on water at Leyburn Station, North Yorkshire.
I recently saw a video of a special train pulled by Tornado that went, briefly, over 100 mph. The shots from in the cab made it look pretty scary! The engine crew seemed pretty tense, not that I blame them.
I'm sure most folks here would enjoy seeing your pix. Welcome aboard.
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