Trains.com

Was the Knox Mine disaster in Scranton/ WilksBarre the begining of the end for the Anthracite railroads LV,Lackawanna,Reading.O&W,Jersey Central ect.?

6626 views
42 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2017
  • From: I've been everywhere, man
  • 4,269 posts
Posted by SD70Dude on Saturday, June 30, 2018 4:55 PM

zugmann
Murphy Siding
Laugh You read my mind! Even to the point that I knew it was Gordon the big freight engine and not Thomas the smaller tank engine. Gordon usually has a sour look on his face.

No wonder he's scowling.  Gordon hauled the EXPRESS!  Not a lowly frieght train!

They've made him haul freight a few times.  It never goes well.  

Gordon reminds me of several old head co-workers who think they are above doing actual work.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Saturday, June 30, 2018 3:09 PM

Murphy Siding
Laugh You read my mind! Even to the point that I knew it was Gordon the big freight engine and not Thomas the smaller tank engine. Gordon usually has a sour look on his face.

No wonder he's scowling.  Gordon hauled the EXPRESS!  Not a lowly frieght train!

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, June 30, 2018 1:23 PM

I like Gordon with the smile a LOT better!  The scowl would frighten the kids.

Besides, Gordon's world famous, what's he got to be PO'd about?

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, June 30, 2018 12:15 PM

Gordon is a Pacific (4-6-2), also.
Image result for Gordon locomotive

 

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, June 30, 2018 11:14 AM

charlie hebdo
 
Firelock76

Hey, I LIKE that "Blue Comet" inspired paint scheme!  Then again, as an old Jersey guy and Jersey Central fan I do have to admit to a certain partiality!

"Beauty's in the eye of the beholder" as the old saying goes.

 

 

 

It would be like painting a steam engine stagecoach yellow and green (C&NW) for a Burlington or Milwaukee Road-inspired tourist line.  But toning down is good.  maybe they were trying to attract kids with a "Thomas the Tank Engine" motif.  All it needs is a Gordon face!

Image result for Thomas the Train

 

 

Laugh You read my mind! Even to the point that I knew it was Gordon the big freight engine and not Thomas the smaller tank engine. Gordon usually has a sour look on his face.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, June 30, 2018 9:10 AM

Firelock76

Hey, I LIKE that "Blue Comet" inspired paint scheme!  Then again, as an old Jersey guy and Jersey Central fan I do have to admit to a certain partiality!

"Beauty's in the eye of the beholder" as the old saying goes.

 

It would be like painting a steam engine stagecoach yellow and green (C&NW) for a Burlington or Milwaukee Road-inspired tourist line.  But toning down is good.  maybe they were trying to attract kids with a "Thomas the Tank Engine" motif.  All it needs is a Gordon face!

Image result for Thomas the Train

 

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, June 30, 2018 8:33 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH

A former part of the Reading calling itself "The Road Of Anthracite".  Is nothing sacred?

 

The Lackawanna's gone, they don't care anymore, so what's the difference?Wink

 

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Saturday, June 30, 2018 8:32 AM

They did tone it down, it looks like.  The undercarriage is now black again.  Blue may be a darker shade, too? Or it just got that way naturally. I don't know.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, June 30, 2018 8:30 AM

Hey, I LIKE that "Blue Comet" inspired paint scheme!  Then again, as an old Jersey guy and Jersey Central fan I do have to admit to a certain partiality!

"Beauty's in the eye of the beholder" as the old saying goes.

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, June 30, 2018 8:24 AM

Firelock76

Aw, you know what I mean!

"Her dress stays white and snowy bright, upon the Road of Anthracite!"

And the Reading and Northern does have steam excursions, although I'm sure #425 is burning, ahem, bituminous.  It doesn't have a Wooten firebox.

 



This mess?

Related image

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, June 30, 2018 6:51 AM

A former part of the Reading calling itself "The Road Of Anthracite".  Is nothing sacred?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, June 29, 2018 10:01 PM

zugmann
 
Firelock76
Aw, you know what I mean!

 

OK, I admit rhyming riding with smiling was a little bit of a stretch.. but c'mon, it wasn't that bad, was it?

 

Nah, besides I always appreciate sincere efforts!

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Friday, June 29, 2018 9:40 PM

Firelock76
Aw, you know what I mean!

OK, I admit rhyming riding with smiling was a little bit of a stretch.. but c'mon, it wasn't that bad, was it?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, June 29, 2018 9:19 PM

Aw, you know what I mean!

"Her dress stays white and snowy bright, upon the Road of Anthracite!"

And the Reading and Northern does have steam excursions, although I'm sure #425 is burning, ahem, bituminous.  It doesn't have a Wooten firebox.

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Friday, June 29, 2018 9:11 PM

Firelock76
Somewhere in the Great Beyond, Phoebe Snow is smiling.

 

'Cause upon the RBM&N, the anthracite is riding?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 5:58 PM

The Reading and Northern, the new "Road of Anthracite."

Somewhere in the Great Beyond, Phoebe Snow is smiling.

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • 85 posts
Posted by GeoffS on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 5:55 PM

Anthracite is still on the move here in Pennsylvania!

At about 3 pm today (6/27) a westbound NS train with 89 (I may

have missed one) Reading & Northern hoppers filled with anthracite

went by at Cove just north of Harrisburg. Great to see it!!

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, June 23, 2018 12:11 PM

The AE&FR (CA&E) spur to Elgin State Hospital was used into the 70s.

 

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, June 23, 2018 11:44 AM

How'd everyone like a visit to the "Old and Weary?"

First is a nice slide show of what was and what remains.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g171ayHRoNA

Next is some vintage film from the 1920's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxP9VgHuN4c

Looks like the long-gone NYO&W still has a strong fan base.

And speaking of Middletown, here's a photo spread of the O&W's Middletown station taken a few years back.  A bit sad and depressing considering the condition of the building, but you can still see the high-quality work that went into building it.  The website says it all.

http://www.iridetheharlemline.com/2011/06/16/old-abandoned-middletowns-ow-station/

 

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, June 23, 2018 6:50 AM

54light15

I recall seeing Conrail on the O &W's old trackage in Middletown, N.Y. in the early 90s, alongside the O & W station which was still standing. The track was in poor condition with the rails moving up and down quite a bit as the train moved. 

 
Like many abandonments, some industrial trackage was picked up for the handful customers still using the line when O&W quit.  In a similar vein, some ex-CA&E trackage in the near west suburbs was operated by IHB as an industrial lead into the 1980's.
The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, June 22, 2018 9:51 PM

For the disposition ( or diaspora, if you will) of the NYO&W's diesel fleet, check this out...

https://www.thedieselshop.us/NYOW.HTML

For the survivors to the present, there's this...

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,4331643

 

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Toronto, Canada
  • 2,560 posts
Posted by 54light15 on Friday, June 22, 2018 9:20 AM

I recall seeing Conrail on the O &W's old trackage in Middletown, N.Y. in the early 90s, alongside the O & W station which was still standing. The track was in poor condition with the rails moving up and down quite a bit as the train moved. 

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 228 posts
Posted by RDG467 on Friday, June 22, 2018 6:17 AM

BaltACD

 B&O purchased some of the NYO&W's FT diesels.  They may have purchased other assets, but I am not aware of any.

There are a handful {3, I think} of 44-tonners left from the Old & Weary.  One made it's way to Scranton last year for preservation.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, June 21, 2018 9:31 PM

Firelock76
To my knowledge nothing is left of the NYO&W.  All the trackage was pulled up after abandonment and the selling-off of the O&W assets like locomotives and rolling stock.

What you might have seen in Middletown was ex-Erie trackage or a local shortline (very short) called the Middletown and New Jersey Railroad.

It's been said the collapse of the NYO&W sent shock waves and shudders through the railroad industry, it was the first of the Class 1 (as they were reckoned at the time) to totally crash and burn like that, by that I mean not just bankruptcy but bankruptcy and abandonment as well.

B&O purchased some of the NYO&W's FT diesels.  They may have purchased other assets, but I am not aware of any.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, June 21, 2018 5:41 PM

To my knowledge nothing is left of the NYO&W aside from still-standing stations.  All the trackage was pulled up after abandonment and the selling-off of the O&W assets like locomotives and rolling stock.  Anything that couldn't be sold intact was sold for scrap.  The creditors had to have their money.

What you might have seen in Middletown was ex-Erie trackage or a local shortline (very short) called the Middletown and New Jersey Railroad.

It's been said the collapse of the NYO&W sent shock waves and shudders through the railroad industry, it was the first of the Class 1's (as they were reckoned at the time) to totally crash and burn like that, by that I mean not just bankruptcy but bankruptcy and abandonment as well.

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • 1,568 posts
Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Thursday, June 21, 2018 2:40 PM

What is left of the NY&O that is still in operation? I saw some trackage around Middletown NY

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 3,139 posts
Posted by chutton01 on Thursday, June 21, 2018 1:52 PM

54light15
I well recall the coal trucks on Long Island when I was a kid. They were filled at a spur track on the LIRR.


Heck, there were dozens of coal dealers on Long Island back in the day.
Note the Vulcan Fuel Co. in Floral Park - that coal silo still exists (well, it did last year), although besides vehicle storage and communication antenna mounting, I'm not sure what its used for...

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 228 posts
Posted by RDG467 on Thursday, June 21, 2018 8:58 AM

The main anthracite 'fields' in Pa are separated from each other. Northern, Middle (East and West) and Southern were the historic names of the fields.  The Northern field was under the Wyoming Valley and had the most deep mining.  The Lackawanna, LV, CNJ and the Erie (to a small extent) lost the most traffic from the Knox disaster.  The Reading's territory was the Middle and Southern fields. 

[Whoops, forgot to mention that the CNJ & LV both served mines in the middle fields, too.  Plus, the PRR hauled *some* anthracite out of the southern field, too.]

I think they had a *slight* increase in business after Knox, but it succumbed to the same trendline that other posters have mentioned.  Anthracite consumption for home heating was already declining after WW2. Some industrial uses helped keep the mines in business and hoppers rolling, but nothing like the pre-war 'glory days'.  

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, June 21, 2018 7:37 AM

     My first 2 homes, built in 1890 & 1917, both had coal chute doors.

     Our company was founded in 1888 selling coal, grain & lumber. I was told that at one time our main lumber yard sold and delivered 44 different kinds of coal. The owners were pretty sharp businessmen and had the yard built where the Milwaukee Road line in town crossed the Illinois Central so they could get freight in from both. About 10 miles up the road they had a yard on the C&NW, and about 2 miles away in another small town, a yard on the Great Northern. Those cats were sharp!

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy