ccltrains Agreed that signals on both sides lets both front end personnel to see signals etc. My concern is the track immediately in front of the engine. An obstruction on the track might not be able to be seen. With the multi rules covering everything I think the feds may require something dealing with forward viewing. I know nothing is required for the excursion steam engines for forward viewing YET. Being wall eyed is not the best way to see directly ahead.
Agreed that signals on both sides lets both front end personnel to see signals etc. My concern is the track immediately in front of the engine. An obstruction on the track might not be able to be seen. With the multi rules covering everything I think the feds may require something dealing with forward viewing. I know nothing is required for the excursion steam engines for forward viewing YET. Being wall eyed is not the best way to see directly ahead.
Yep. Line of sight really isn't worth much when there's thousands of tons behind you decending Sherman Hill. All it's really good for is giving the crew a chance to pull down on the whistle lanyard in hopes of warning the obstruction off the tracks. Which of course is useless anyways if the "obstruction" is a rockslide.
But even with all that, several railroads operated their diesels "long hood first" because that's what their engineers had become accustomed to: seeing the machine they were driving so they could detect mechanical issues as soon as possibe.
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
54light15 Maybe you're right, Firelock but I know some garment or another from Big 2 was called a bum freezer. Fascinating about U-boat crews wearing British battledress. I thought the crews wore mostly coveralls, I guess I need to see "Das Boot" again to be sure. One thing Arthur Godfey had in common with Captain Eddie, he was quailfied to fly multi-engined commercial aircraft. So was Danny Kaye. John Travolta we know about, I wonder who else?
Maybe you're right, Firelock but I know some garment or another from Big 2 was called a bum freezer.
Fascinating about U-boat crews wearing British battledress. I thought the crews wore mostly coveralls, I guess I need to see "Das Boot" again to be sure.
One thing Arthur Godfey had in common with Captain Eddie, he was quailfied to fly multi-engined commercial aircraft. So was Danny Kaye. John Travolta we know about, I wonder who else?
According to some people I knew in my youth who were navy pilots, a "Bum Freezer" was a fleece-lined jacket worn by fighter pilots. It was a waist length, leather jacket with enough room to let the pilots move as they needed to to fly in combat.
ccltrainsThought this was a thread not the historical locomotive naming. With this in mind I have a question. The Big Boy is a large engine with limited line of sight for the engineer. Nothing like the auto type of view an engineer has from today’s diesels. My question is: will UP discretely install a tv camera to give the engineer a better view?
4014 will have as good a view as it did in it's first day of revenue service.
I will say one thing however, Class 1 in the signal replacement programs for PTC have been installing signals on both the right and left sides of the track - in steam days all signals were installed on the right on engineers side of the track (except CNW who used the English left hand style of running) or on signal bridges above the tracks - right hand signals were viewable on the engineers side of the boiler. When the 4014 returns to operation the Fireman will also have to view and call signals.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I wouldn't be surprised if they did, it wouldn't hurt, but I remember what old-time engineers said about limited line of sight in the steam days...
"It really doesn't matter, 'cause you can't stop on a dime anyway!"
Thought this was a thread not the historical locomotive naming. With this in mind I have a question. The Big Boy is a large engine with limited line of sight for the engineer. Nothing like the auto type of view an engineer has from today’s diesels. My question is: will UP discretely install a tv camera to give the engineer a better view?
Erik, I wouldn't be surprised to hear any of your father's supply dump stories. From what I heard the amount of equipment of all kinds "trashed" had to be seen to be believed. Everything from Stuart tanks to B-24's. Unbelieveable.
Wayne
Wayne,
Makes sense, especially with the 567's being used on a number of Navy ships. FWIW, my dad was a Lt jg when the Quest shipped out on V-J day and he had quite a few stories of what happened to the various supply dumps.
After his discharge, he spent a year teaching High School in his hometown and then went on to get a PhD in Biochemistry.
- Erik
erikem FWIW, one of the last things that my dad's ship (USS Quest) did before it was decommisioned was to sweep for mines around Bikini in preparation for Operation Crossroads. He didn't say much about that aprt of his experience at sea, but did have a few stories of using up the butter stock before the ship was truned over to the Philippines. - Erik P.S. He some interesting stories to tell about the various engines he worked on at Diesel Engineering school - Alco's, FM's, HOR's and a 24 cylinder GM (Winton).
FWIW, one of the last things that my dad's ship (USS Quest) did before it was decommisioned was to sweep for mines around Bikini in preparation for Operation Crossroads. He didn't say much about that aprt of his experience at sea, but did have a few stories of using up the butter stock before the ship was truned over to the Philippines.
P.S. He some interesting stories to tell about the various engines he worked on at Diesel Engineering school - Alco's, FM's, HOR's and a 24 cylinder GM (Winton).
Erik, I've mentioned this in the past, and not being a genius I'm suprised no-one thought of it first, but I can't help but get the impression that one of the things, if not a major thing, that made the railroad's rapid transition from steam to diesel in the post-war years possible were all those thousands of diesel mechanics re-entering civilian life and looking for jobs who were trained courtesy of Uncle Sam.
To say nothing of electricians as well.
Check out this site for Prinz Eugen: http://www.petemesley.com/lust4rust/wreck-trips/bikini-atoll/wrecks/
Crossroads: Test Baker. Underwater detonation of 23kt pit.
Regarding the Scapa Flow German wrecks, as I understand it one of the wrecks, the SMS Konig was not salvaged but its steel was of such a quality that some was recovered for use in the moon landings of lo, these 50 years ago. Not sure how but that's what I've heard. If you are interested, paper models of many of the ships are available (I've got a bunch) and are a lot more fun to build than plastic kits. Have a look at this if you're interested.
http://store.jsc.pl/
I saw the Allegheny at the Roanoke Museum in 1983. That stoker screw & firebox are huge!
Firelock76Becky, that picture you posted of the Allegheny reminds me of a Thanksgiving weekend about ten years ago. We were visiting the B&O Museum in Baltimore with Lady F's sister and her family. My sister-in-law's hubby is a real gearhead and car guy, and he was reading the spec sheet posted by the Allgeheny. So say he was amazed at the performance of the machine was putting it mildly. "My God," he said, "WHY did they every get rid of these things?" Why indeed? I told him the whole sad story and he said "OK, that makes sense. But WHY did they ever get rid of these things?" Haven't we all been asking that most of our lives?
We were visiting the B&O Museum in Baltimore with Lady F's sister and her family. My sister-in-law's hubby is a real gearhead and car guy, and he was reading the spec sheet posted by the Allgeheny. So say he was amazed at the performance of the machine was putting it mildly.
"My God," he said, "WHY did they every get rid of these things?"
Why indeed? I told him the whole sad story and he said "OK, that makes sense. But WHY did they ever get rid of these things?"
Haven't we all been asking that most of our lives?
Watched 'Drain the Oceans' last night on National Geographic Channel.
They had a segment on the Germans scuttling their 74 ship fleet at Scappa Floe while under British guard as the peace conference was dithering over how to split up the German ships as spoils of war. Scuttling the ships at the same time was one mean feat of organization.
Even better, at present there are only 7 German ships on the bottom. The remainder of the ships were salvaged and sold off as scrap during the inter war period - most of the scrap steel sold was sold to Hitler's Germany and thereby became a significant part of the arsenal he build between 1933 and 1940.
Are we driving some of the 1940's steam engines, are they our washing machines or refrigerators? Were they a part of the World Trade Center on 9/11?????? It would be interesting if one could track the DNA of today's steel and figure out where and when it actually originated.
Becky, that picture you posted of the Allegheny reminds me of a Thanksgiving weekend about ten years ago.
I've been to Dearborn at least twice but neither time was I old enough to appreciate what I was looking at.
54light15 Yeee Haaaa!!!
Yeee Haaaa!!!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3edi2Wkr5YI
Peter Sellers was originally supposed to play Major Kong as well, but I think Slim Pickens was just perfect in that role!
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Far as anyone knows, the heaviest 2-6+6-6 was a bit heavier than the heaviest 4-8+8-4. Maybe an inch or two taller? But not longer, of course.
I saw the one at Steamtown in Scranton about 30 years ago and the Allegheny in the Henry Ford museum about 8 years ago. A friend of mine thinks the Allegheny is bigger, but he is wrong. Isn't he? Man, they were gigantic!
And as far as atom bombs go, all I can say is:
Well thank goodness! All that a-bomb talk was getting depressing.
And the Big Boy is BIG alright! Anyone ever see one "up-close and personal?" I have, several years back at the rail museum in Dallas, formerly at the Texas State Fairgrounds. The size of the thing took my breath away, photos don't do it justice.
Second place for sheer heart-stopping size goes to the C&O Allegheny. Wow!
Overmod, I disagree to a degree :). Russia couldn't invade Japan without US and UK help. They didn't have the amphibious ships or logistic train through Siberia to do it. They were supporting Mao so invading Manchuria wouldn't get them any land because Mao would get it. They captured a few islands "just because". By the end of the war in Europe, they were pretty well bled out. It would have taken them months to ship the forces needed east on the single track Siberian railway. Once there, they still wouldn't have the shipping to do anything with them.
OvermodHow do we link this back to Big Boys, or railroading?
Simple! Post a link or two to some photos!
Big. Aren't they?
BaltACDRussia's moves toward Japan were just a 'me too' effort to say they were involved in the war against Japan, when they weren't.
Although I despise most of the New Left, I would highly disagree with this.
As Penny noted, there were strong restrictions against the Russians entering the war against Japan before Hitler was defeated, the nasty-spirited little partitions of Europe were under way, etc. Meanwhile, there is the Red Army with little to do, and presumably a long memory back to 1905. There may not have been dramatic Russian presence in Manchuria and other 'approach regions' in the period between VE day and August, but there was little doubt that large forces would be brought to bear against the Japanese in increasing concentration, unless the United States and the other Western powers found a reason to put Russia out of the alliance -- given the anticipated casualties for an invasion of the Japanese home islands, ridiculously unlikely.
I confess I'd have been interested to see how much of the Japanese die-to-the-last-woman-and-child tactics would survive contact with large concentrations of Red Army troops with expedient weaponry. Suspect it would not have lasted long, and suspect you will find many Japanese historians who recognize this.
Of course, if you understand the physics of relatively small fission bombs, you will recognize how much of the hibakusha propaganda really doesn't apply to the situation ... but it isn't popular to defend 'weapons of mass destruction' especially in the age when mutual assured deterrence fringes over into 'more boom for the buck' mutually-assured destruction.
How do we link this back to Big Boys, or railroading?
OvermodYou may remember that one of the common New Left 'pravdas' from the 1960s on was that the 'real' reason Japan surrendered when it did was the threat of the Russian invasion of Manchuria, and not any number of bombs.
Russia's moves toward Japan were just a 'me too' effort to say they were involved in the war against Japan, when they weren't.
BaltACD I think what we are all trying to say - as horrific as the A-Bombs were. Their use saved countless lives - American and Japanese, as the succeeded in bringing a quick end of the war.
I think what we are all trying to say - as horrific as the A-Bombs were. Their use saved countless lives - American and Japanese, as the succeeded in bringing a quick end of the war.
There is historically, no doubt that the use of the A-Bombs over Japan saved American lives. Firelock76 may need to correct the following(?); but what I have always heard, is that the estimations for American troop losses, were in the neighborhood of 2+ million potential[American and Japanese(?)] casualties. for the Invasion of the Japanese Home Islands.
Another interesting note, is that, in preparations for that Invasion, The American Government had struck; an order for 1 million Purple Heart Medals, for the American casualties they were expecting(?). To that extent, the Purple Heart Medals being awarded from those times to this; are medals from the ones created for distribution, after the Invasion of the Home Islands(?). [That may be an urban ledgend] , but whenever the subject has come up in various conversations, no one seems to have wanted to correct that, statement.
Overmod You may remember that one of the common New Left 'pravdas' from the 1960s on was that the 'real' reason Japan surrendered when it did was the threat of the Russian invasion of Manchuria, and not any number of bombs.
You may remember that one of the common New Left 'pravdas' from the 1960s on was that the 'real' reason Japan surrendered when it did was the threat of the Russian invasion of Manchuria, and not any number of bombs.
Uh huh.
By the way, anyone notice there's over 18,000 views on this thread? That's amazing, someone out there is sure finding this interesting.
I wonder who they are?
Yes, the soviets were bound by the Malta(?) agreement to assist in the invasion of Japan after V-E day. So I doubt there would have been many surviving young Russian males if they'd had to fulfill their promise after so many years fighting the nazis all the way back to Berlin.
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