611 and NS - filing for divorce?

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Friday, January 05, 2018 7:30 PM

Penny Trains

 

 
kgbw49

I would suppose this will impact 765 and perhaps 2100, although there is the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic line right there at 2100's doorstep.

Of course, ferry moves to an excursion site are not excursions, so perhaps there will be other opportunities yet.

We'll keep our fingers crossed.

 

 

 

When the 765 comes to Cleveland it's CSX that usually does the hauling.  So.....no difference as far as the steam in the valley excursions go?  I mean, CSX and NS are just about as bad these days to steam, so.....

I don't think it will impact the ferry moves, since thier are no passengerd on board will greatly reduce thier " liability ". Rail fans won't gripe if thier a diesel on the Head end.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, January 06, 2018 9:44 AM

Penny Trains
 
kgbw49

I would suppose this will impact 765 and perhaps 2100, although there is the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic line right there at 2100's doorstep.

Of course, ferry moves to an excursion site are not excursions, so perhaps there will be other opportunities yet.

We'll keep our fingers crossed.

 

 

 

When the 765 comes to Cleveland it's CSX that usually does the hauling.  So.....no difference as far as the steam in the valley excursions go?  I mean, CSX and NS are just about as bad these days to steam, so.....

 

Really?  That's interesting, I thought CSX's "no antiques" rule applied to ferry moves as well.  Possibly they make an exception in the Cuyahoga Valley case, for whatever reason.  Someone in the know with CSX would have to explain it.

Shows they're flexible, at any rate.

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Sunday, January 07, 2018 7:11 AM

The csv operates on the former b&o Akron to Cleveland line. The line handled all the b& o trains into Union terminal. Perhaps they interchange with ns in akron.At the end of the ns steam program, ns agreed to handle the 765 ferry moves. I don't think that arrangement has changed.

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Posted by Sunnyland on Monday, January 08, 2018 7:27 PM

I had heard about this a while back. Sorry to hear it and glad I did get to ride with her in 2015 We were told then to write Jim Squires to keep steam program going since Wick was going to be leaving.  I hope they can work out details and bring her farther west into our area so more people get to see this beautiful engine.  

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Posted by Boyd on Monday, January 08, 2018 11:44 PM

Could we see 611 and 4014 together? That would be the two most famous American steam locomotives in one place. Lots of the public doesn’t know anything about 4014 and it’s significance. I hope it comes close to or through St.Paul Minnesota because I don’t have the money to take a trip to see it.

If Amtrak gets in on excursions, a silver Amtrak diesel between the tender and cars would stick out like a sore thumb. 

Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, January 09, 2018 8:27 PM

Boyd
Could we see 611 and 4014 together

I would guess not for quite awhile after 4014 is back in steam.  I would think they'd want to run it close to home for awhile so a meeting at one of the most logical places, like Chicago, would be a "down the road" event.  Of course, there's nothing stopping the 611 group from getting the J to Cheyenne except the railroads they'd have to work with to get there.

A waking Lithium Flower just about to bloom

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 10, 2018 5:53 AM

How about putting 4014 and/or 611 on the cab-car-end of a single-level push-pull consist, maybe borrowing a string of New-Haven McGinnis-painted Metro-North Conn-DOT single-level cars?  The diesel on the far end might be avoided in most photographs.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, January 10, 2018 5:47 PM

Great idea David!  How about a McGinnis-painted diesel on the far-end as well?

If we're goin' New Haven let's go all the way!

And 611 kinda-sorta looks like one of those New Haven streamlined Hudsons when you stop and think about it.

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Posted by aegrotatio on Thursday, January 11, 2018 12:17 AM

Safety first.  If the leading locomotive requires PTC, then the leading locomotive should provide PTC.

 

I love preservation, but safety is the first and primary goal of any excursion train.

 

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, January 11, 2018 1:52 PM

aegrotatio
Safety first. If the leading locomotive requires PTC, then the leading locomotive should provide PTC.

First you would have to establish that the leading locomotive in fact DOES require PTC.  In most of the applicable circumstances, a locomotive running second or even further back in the consist would be just fine for any of the 'mandated' purposes, a matter of 150' or so of excess consist length being well within any stopping or overlap interval, and the crew on the lead locomotive being directly responsible for any foul protection at the end of sidings or the like that might be compromised in principle by having the GPS 'reporting' location further back than the designed offset.

The point I think you should have made is that if a train requires PTC, then its locomotive or consist should provide PTC.  As noted that functionality can be largely provided, for historic steam, through the equipment on 'protection power', with much of the actual equipment requirement on the steam locomotive being reduced to control transmissions or wired/wireless communications to the actual SDRs and other equipment constituting the mandated equipment, if one of the 'conventional' methods of MU/DPU control of protection or trailing power from a steam-locomotive cab, as on 844, is not sufficient.

I don't think there is much question that any excursion run at road speed with other trains present should require operable PTC.  I suppose it could be argued that British experience doesn't quite apply ... but you'd have to argue with someone other than me: I'm convinced that legacy steam requires train control in order to run effectively and safely at all times anywhere that a SPAD poses a threat.  If it is to run 'without' any protection power, then the mandated functionality needs to be provided on board.  This is less expensive to do, technically, than implemented system-wide production solutions on railroads need.  But if there is some form of technical certification, and in a Government system you can bet it will be arcane and nit-pickingly detailed, then even a homebrew solution will require documented exercising, testing, and periodic directed oversight from your friendly FRA representative(s)...

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, January 11, 2018 1:59 PM

Boyd
If Amtrak gets in on excursions, a silver Amtrak diesel between the tender and cars would stick out like a sore thumb.

If it can be reasonably established a few days in advance which 'Amtrak diesel' was to be assigned ... we can use collected funds to have the unit 'wrapped' in an appropriate scheme -- such as DGLE five-stripe, or black with a Tuscan band at 'matching' height for 611 -- to reduce the visual intrusion.  Considering some of the wrapped schemes various public-sector entities have allowed, no few of them for far more restricted clienteles (Ravens, anyone?) I doubt the necessary permission would involve too much difficulty on top of that needed to set up an excursion with Amtrak in the first place...

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