Interesting development

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Interesting development
Posted by Overmod on Saturday, October 21, 2017 8:24 PM

I posted this in Locomotives, but it probably deserves a mention here.

No diesel-electrics are running in this shot.

 

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Posted by tdmidget on Saturday, October 21, 2017 9:50 PM

What about that 80 Ton GE?

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, October 22, 2017 12:13 AM

tdmidget
What about that 80 Ton GE?

I meant behind the Krauss-Maffei.  (9010 has been running as a 'cab car' pushed by other locomotive(s) for some time.  She is now not only moving under her own power but developing considerable tractive effort of her own...)

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, October 22, 2017 5:28 PM

I wonder if the gang working on that Krauss-Maffei restoration have a nickname for that German "battleship."

You know, like Bismarck, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst, Gneisenau...

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, October 22, 2017 5:41 PM

Hmmm...looks like a Fitz to me, but thats not a ship. Das Boot?

We better be careful here. 

You have to admire the visibility from the cab.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, October 22, 2017 6:39 PM

Nah, GE had first dibs on U-Boats.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, October 22, 2017 6:46 PM

Kron Prinz Zug?

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, October 22, 2017 6:59 PM

Penny Trains

Kron Prinz Zug?

 

Not bad, not bad at all!

Prinz Eugen popped into my mind earlier, but that was a heavy cruiser, not a battleship.

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Posted by zugmann on Sunday, October 22, 2017 7:56 PM

Penny Trains

Kron Prinz Zug?

 

Huh?

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer or any other railroad, company, or person.

I occasionally post off-topic remarks.  Adults can handle that.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Sunday, October 22, 2017 8:29 PM

OK, how about we go back further in history to the dreadnought era?

The Kaiser class was a series of dreadnoughts built 1909-1913.

Ten 12-inch guns were the main armament.

The way that thing is smoking in the video, it does look like it is burning Ruhr coal.

In fact, the ghost of Admiral Beatty and the First Battlecruiser Squadron may be steaming into San Francisco Bay towards the smoke at this moment.

So here is a suggestion of "The Kaiser", just for fun.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, October 22, 2017 9:10 PM

You folks are missing the boat (pun intended) - this thing is a working success and a grand achievement, and yes, they appear to have crossed their Ts very successfully indeed, all down the line.

I suggest there is a more appropriate name for that locomotive, and it follows the naming condition that was used for

Name it after Adenauer.

(I don't think he was still Bundeskanzler when 9010 was built, but he certainly was when it was ordered ... and in the early years of the Amerika-Lok program.)

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, October 22, 2017 9:21 PM

Der Alte...the Old Man 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, October 23, 2017 6:43 PM

zugmann

 

 
Penny Trains

Kron Prinz Zug?

 

 

 

Huh?

 

Crown Prince Train.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Monday, October 23, 2017 6:45 PM

I went into the archives here at the "Fortress Firelock" and "Penny Trains" isn't too far off the mark.

There was a German battleship during the First World War named the Kronprinz, later changed to Kronprinz Wilhelm.  

Scuttled with the rest of the Kaiser's High Seas Fleet at Scapa Flow in 1919, she's still there.

"Der Alte." That's not bad either.

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Posted by 54light15 on Tuesday, October 24, 2017 1:38 PM

I kind of like the nickname of the S.M.S. Seydlitz, "The Iron Dog." (I have a card model of it on a a shelf right behind me as I write this.) But anyway I drove  a Mercedes 300 like that once for the woman who owned it but couldn't drive it. The reason was, standing still it was almost impossible to turn the steering wheel. Parking must have been fun! But, when it was in motion, it was like it had power steering. Unusal to say the least. But, wasn't the KM a diesel-hydraulic like a lot of German diesels? 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, October 24, 2017 2:02 PM

In the early 60's, DB was pretty big on torque-converter rather than electric transmissions.  The 21 KM's exported to the United States were based on European designs modified for North American usage.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, October 24, 2017 2:06 PM

54light15
... wasn't the KM a diesel-hydraulic like a lot of German diesels?

Yes, but larger -- American-size larger.

According to Trains, the hydraulic transmission was one of the chief problems, but not in the way you'd see coming.  First was that with Teutonic thoroughness, the transmission was interlocked so it 'sequenced' through reversing and couldn't have power applied until it had thoroughly settled.  This took some time, and on a typical pair of these there were four separate transmissions -- this was one of the very few things slower to load when switching than a pollution-optimized GE.  Apparently anything involving repeated reverses was slow and agonizing compared to what's required for a MUed diesel-electric consist.

Second, and perhaps the kiss of death, each transmission contained a great deal of hydraulic fluid.  Every liter of which, along with the lubricant in all those Cardan shaft bearings and gearboxes, was supposed to be replaced every 30 days, under the terms of the guarantee, and only German fluid was supposed to be used ... I don't know if this was Pentosin, or the Esso equivalent that BMW used in the ZF transmissions, but it was mind-numbingly expensive in the early '60s.  It might be interesting to see how the Alco C855 compared in this respect.

Add in the requirement that fairly frequent wheel turnings had to be made to prevent premature gearbox and shaft damage... and you're rapidly running out of the advantages gained by using the MD870s and synchronized slip-resistant drive...

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, October 28, 2017 5:03 PM

Speaking of 'American-size larger' but German, how about this, in steam, from even before the era of the 'Atlantic Coast Line' 19 1001 motor locomotive...

Not sure how prototypical that 'flag of convenience' is ... but I'd certainly have flown it proudly in my backyard fish pool!

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, October 28, 2017 6:22 PM

What a great looking toy!  Although the Germans broke tradition naming it "Tirpitz," I'm sure the Grand Admiral was still very much alive when that toy was new.

Probably just too nice for some rich kid to play with, which is why it's in such good condition.

Probably worth a hell of a lot more than any of us would be willing to spend!

A little bit of "Antiques Roadshow" here on the forum.

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Posted by M636C on Saturday, October 28, 2017 6:58 PM

Overmod

Speaking of 'American-size larger' but German, how about this, in steam, from even before the era of the 'Atlantic Coast Line' 19 1001 motor locomotive...

Not sure how prototypical that 'flag of convenience' is ... but I'd certainly have flown it proudly in my backyard fish pool!

 

I don't think there was a German warship named Tirpitz until 1941.

Tirpitz was an Admiral concerned with ship construction, so that may have led to the name on the model.

Of course the cruiser Prinz Eugen was taken over by the USN after WWII and flew a US flag, so there was a precedent. I don't know if any ships were taken over after WWI.

Peter

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, October 28, 2017 7:43 PM

Firelock76
What a great looking toy!

Wonder if it's an Ives?

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, October 28, 2017 8:19 PM

A model of the Prinz Eugen would make a nice nightlight.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, October 28, 2017 8:47 PM

Penny Trains
 
Firelock76
What a great looking toy!

 

Wonder if it's an Ives?

 

Could very well be, I was thinking Maerklin myself.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, October 28, 2017 9:09 PM

M636C
 
Overmod

Speaking of 'American-size larger' but German, how about this, in steam, from even before the era of the 'Atlantic Coast Line' 19 1001 motor locomotive...

Not sure how prototypical that 'flag of convenience' is ... but I'd certainly have flown it proudly in my backyard fish pool!

 

 

 

I don't think there was a German warship named Tirpitz until 1941.

Tirpitz was an Admiral concerned with ship construction, so that may have led to the name on the model.

Of course the cruiser Prinz Eugen was taken over by the USN after WWII and flew a US flag, so there was a precedent. I don't know if any ships were taken over after WWI.

Peter

 

Quite true, the Tirpitz was launched in 1939 several months after the Bismarck. Naval tradition of any maritime country used to be you didn't name ships after anyone still living, hence my suppostion that Grand Admiral Tirpitz was still alive when that toy was built.  Whoever made it indulged ina bit of artistic license.

The US did take possession of two German warships after World War One, at least two that I know of.  One was the battleship Ostfriesland, the other I don't recall the name of.  As per inter-Allied agreement any ships taken from the Germans were to be kept only for evaluation and then disposed of.  Ostfriesland and the other German ship were eventually sunk as targets for General Billy Mitchell's bombing tests.

Pretty much the same story for Prinz Eugen.  The Prinz ended up as a target ship for both Bikini A-Bomb tests.  Remarkably, it survived both tests and was towed to Kwajalein Atoll and sunk there due to unrepaired hull leaks from the bomb tests.  The Prinz is still there too, a popular wreck dive site.

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Posted by 54light15 on Sunday, October 29, 2017 10:02 AM

Wow! That model is a beaut! Would that be a wind-up or live steam? Either way, me want it! 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, October 29, 2017 10:34 AM

Knowing the size would help, but I'm guessing it's a wind-up, there's a whole lot of superstructure you'd have to get out of the way to access a boiler and burner assembly.

I'd love to have it myself!  Not much room in the bathtub for it but I'd figure out something.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, October 29, 2017 10:35 AM

For the record: it is Marklin (I spell it the way it was marketed here in the ‘60s; someone tell me how to get umlaut characters on an iPhone), it is live steam, 34” long, and said to be completely and lovingly restored.  You might not want it as much if you knew its starting bid was $17K and expected hammer price around $35K, let alone that your buyer’s premium is 25%.

I wonder how many of these and so many other German steam toys were destroyed during the Wilsonian hysteria whipped up to justify WWI, and persistent so many years after.  But that is politics not relevant here, and recrimination will not bring them back.

i do wonder if there were railroaders on SP or D&RGW who had lost buddies in the later war and might have disliked or even sabotaged the ‘German’ diesel-hydraulic locomotives in service...  I remember not liking the Quarter Horse for its commie origins, but that design certainly needed no sabotage from anyone; its own ‘engineering’ did that readily enough!

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, October 29, 2017 10:40 AM

So it IS live steam!  Wow!  And at 34" it's a big 'un, you could darn near ride it!

Yeah, my computer doesn't do the umlauts either, hence my spelling it "Maerklin."

As far as the idea of railroaders who were combat veterans sabotaging German made locomotives, I'd say anything's possible, although without solid proof I'd never make the accusation.  I do know the rage and hate can last a long, long time after a war and some men never get over it.  US fighter ace Don Blakeslee hated the Germans to the day he died and would never attend any fighter pilot gatherings or symposiums where any Luftwaffe veterans were in attendance. 

Don Blakeslee was a tough combat soldier, he's been called "General Patton in a P-51."

 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, October 29, 2017 6:31 PM

A tin toy boat for the rest of us:

It's only 8 inches, but it's also only 12 bucks!  Laugh  https://www.tintoyarcade.com/battleship-espana.html

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, October 29, 2017 7:04 PM

Well, isn't that cute!

And you're right Becky, $12 sure beats the heck out of 35 G's!

I wonder if Overmod should shift this thread over to "Classic Toy Trains" just to see what kind of stampede he starts over that live steam Tirpitz?

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