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AT&SF 3463

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  • Member since
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AT&SF 3463
Posted by johnbill on Tuesday, August 01, 2017 8:50 PM

Finally a breath of fresh air.  The fight over ownership of 3463 has been clarified.  The city of Topeka still does, even though they tried to pawn it off.  They just didn't follow law.

To see why it has taken so long to settle this issue see attached judges ruling.

capitaljournal.cjonline.com/news/local/2017-04-10/court

 

Sorry the link doesn't work, but the bottom line was that everybody was sueing everybody for everything.  When the smoke cleared, the judge ruled quite Judge Judy style that most parties didn't have a dog in the fight and should stand aside.  The title for the engine remained with the city.  Time will tell what the city will do.  I don't think this fight is over.

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  • From: Parma Heights Ohio
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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, August 02, 2017 7:10 PM

A waking Lithium Flower just about to bloom

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Posted by johnbill on Wednesday, August 02, 2017 8:54 PM
penny, thanks for a good link johnbill
RME
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Posted by RME on Thursday, August 03, 2017 10:02 AM

johnbill
penny, thanks for a good link

The only problem is that this is the same link ... now several months stale ... that was extensively discussed both here and on RyPN back in April.  From what I can see, nothing is being added now that wasn't known then.  (Be advised there is a direct link to the ruling itself in one of those threads, and it does not say what the 'popular' news sources thought it did.)

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Posted by johnbill on Thursday, August 03, 2017 9:32 PM

RME,

May be old news to you but not to me.

The "popular" news source is not my favorate.  When it was Capper Poblications ran it, it wasn't too bad but when Stauffer took over it went down hill.

If you have later info, please share.

RME
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Posted by RME on Thursday, August 03, 2017 10:11 PM

I recommend that you start by reading this Forum thread from earlier this year

cs.trains.com/trn/f/740/p/263068/2966062.aspx?

which contains some of the 'collateral' detail about what the issues are and were, and links to the text of the actual legal opinion.

Follow this by doing something I have not done: get copies of the upcoming pleadings, and track the adjudication process proactively as the court proceedings become scheduled and take place.  Do not rely on any public media report conclusions or statements until you have confirmed them with specific legal primary source language.

Few of the players in this little contretemps appear to be up front about what's going on, or seem to be actively trying to resolve the core issue(s) in an objective manner.  One key point is that the actual form of the ATSF donation of the locomotive was phrased in somewhat sentimental language ... with neither a firm definition of who represented 'the children of Topeka' or what, if any, recourse the donor might have if the locomotive was not maintained as indicated.

Do not be fooled by claims that the legal decision 'gives the locomotive to the City of Topeka'.  Yes, the CSR/SRI people have opened negotiations with the City as if Topeka owned the locomotive ... this is a common legal strategy in uncertainty.  What I see from the rather sarcastic language in the published decision is that nobody has proven full right to administer the locomotive (although there is one specific organization which has been proven to have no right based on any of their claims). and that only forward-going court proceedings (which should, in fact, be either scheduling or starting around this time, iirc) could further unwind the issue "for the greater good of 3463 and the group to which she was given".

Yes, it would be nice if Davidson Ward et al. kept a running discussion of the issues and their (perhaps changing) plans for the locomotive.  They've chosen not to do that, or in fact to issue statements that contain much more information than general propaganda.  The folks in Topeka don't seem to have much organized plan for actual restoration and subsequent care, either -- let's hope that changes, and changes fast and hard in the right directions, when the next round of court arguments are made.  I think it's pretty well established that the City of Topeka administration has no real idea or desire to actually pay money to do meaningful things with the locomotive, although perhaps they'd be just tickled to realize some form of cold hard cash (or the equivalent) if they can squeeze it out of a motivated group with available funds.

Personally, I think some group within BNSF should be organized to recover title to 3463, perhaps basing the action on the long-drawn violation of 'covenant' regarding care for the engine.  That group should then define, carefully and with all appropriate safeguards going forward, exactly who gets the engine, how its care and preservation needs to be made, what amounts of investment need to be maintained or planned for to give 'perpetual care' without surprises ... and then have the chosen group(s) sign a proper form of donation agreement, with appropriate clauses about what happens under any circumstance.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Friday, August 04, 2017 12:02 AM

Plus one on your last paragraph, RME.

in a perfect world I'd also like to see a group with a proven track record get the locomotive along with a funding source for restoration. A group such as the Friends of the 261 (of which I am a donating member) has the expertise to do a fine job. Steve Sandburg and crew would probably have 3463 ready for when 261 is due for its mandated 1472 day work.

The Twin Cities were probably the biggest US 4-6-4 "haunt" outside of New York Central territory with the Burlington and Milwaukee fleets calling regularly, and BNSF could utilize 3463 for Employee Appreciation work all over the Midwest portion of its network. The 261 crew already has a solid track record with BNSF.

"If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, what a merry Christmas this would be."

 

RME
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Posted by RME on Friday, August 04, 2017 12:16 AM

kgbw49
in a perfect world I'd also like to see a group with a proven track record get the locomotive along with a funding source for restoration. A group such as the Friends of the 261 (of which I am a donating member) has the expertise to do a fine job. Steve Sandburg and crew would probably have 3463 ready for when 261 is due for its mandated 1472 day work.

I was actually thinking more along the lines of a 'joint venture' organized between those people who were trying to restore the locomotive in Topeka before being frustrated by GOS et al. and the team that is just now finishing up 2926 in New Mexico.  That would prioritize first stabilizing and then restoring the locomotive itself.  Once all the mechanical work is done, the actual operating group might be nothing more than a 'Friends' type organization (I was thinking more of the Fort Wayne people that have leveraged 765 into a brand and keep showing us just what world-class thinking can do) that has the ability to call in experts as needed to keep the engine in top shape, paying for work as needed but keeping the bills low by doing as much 'themselves' (or with volunteer participation) as possible.

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