Erie Berkshires & Pacifics

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Erie Berkshires & Pacifics
Posted by kgbw49 on Friday, February 24, 2017 9:22 PM

Thunder and lighting...miscellanous photos in no particular order...

3300s...2-8-4 Berkshires...

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2900s...4-6-2 Pacifics...

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Bat outa hell 1...

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Bat outa hell 2...

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Bat outa hell 3...

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, February 24, 2017 10:30 PM

So many things go through your mind looking at those pictures. 

Does anyone know, approximately, how many steam locomotives were scrapped between 1946-1956...100,000? 

When they say "those were the days" these pictures are the very definition. 

Sigh

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Posted by pajrr on Saturday, February 25, 2017 2:41 AM

The Erie had the largest fleet of Berkshires---105. As for the picture of Erie 2929, that train is stopped at my hometown train station in NJ. When the pic was taken those big K-5s had been demoted from long ditance trains to commuter trains. Diesels were handling all the long distance trains by then. Years later I would photograph several steam excursions coming through my town at the station-- NKP 765, C&O 614, BM&R 425 and Rdg 2102. Since 765 dates from the time that the Van Sweringens owned both NKP and Erie, 765 looked just like an Erie Berkshire when it stormed through town.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, February 25, 2017 6:48 AM

Miningman

Does anyone know, approximately, how many steam locomotives were scrapped between 1946-1956...100,000? 

In fairness, that number should be compared with the number of diesel locomotives built and placed in service during that period.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, February 25, 2017 8:24 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH
 
Miningman

Does anyone know, approximately, how many steam locomotives were scrapped between 1946-1956...100,000? 

 

 

In fairness, that number should be compared with the number of diesel locomotives built and placed in service during that period.

 

Unlikely it was 100,000, at least in this country anyway.  Forget where I read this but at the most there were about 40,000 steam locomotives here in the US around the World War Two era.  I could be wrong on that though.

And PAJRR, where was your hometown in New Jersey?  Just curious as I'm from Northern NJ myself, Paramus to be exact.  Paramus didn't have any rail lines although the Erie did pass to the east and west of us.

We DID have a Public Service trolley line that was abandoned in the Thirties. It ran along (more or less) the present day Plaza Way just south of where the Garden State Plaza shopping mall is now.

And Miningman, at any rate all that scrapping was one hell of a massacre anyway  you look at it. I wish some of those Erie units were saved, but what can you do?

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Posted by pajrr on Saturday, February 25, 2017 12:28 PM

Firelock, I am right next door to you in Fair Lawn, The Bergen County Line. I had an exhibit on the Erie RR in the Fair Lawn Library in Oct.2016. Maybe you saw it?

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, February 25, 2017 12:59 PM

Put this posting in the wrong thread...yeesh.

This is the right thread..sorry.

Firelock76- Yes that 40,000 number sounds right...thinking 100,000 was something I read years ago about total number of steam locos at the height during the '20's. 

There were considerably less diesels replacing steam...certainly not one for one. Considering the savings in labour, maintainence, roundhouses, water and so forth it did not save them at all..especially in the East then the Central. Everything went to hell in a handbasket, not the diesels fault, all the positives wiped out pretty quickly. 

Must have been quite the shock to see steam replaced so quickly and thoughouly as on the Erie, CNJ, New Haven, Lackawanna, Rock Island, Milwaukee, and so on. 

Toronto, Hamilton and Buffalo Berkshires went into the blast furnaces 1953. The smaller roads up here dieselized real quick. CNR and CPR had an large uptick in business all through the fifities. Essentially being a "Union Pacific" and a "Santa Fe" with long transcon runs, CNR and CPR delayed a lot of scrapping becuase buisness was so good they were needed, not because diesels were not arriving on the property. In any case that gave me 7 or 8 more years of bliss. That all ended essentially in '59. 

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Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, February 25, 2017 2:22 PM

Comin' at ya, Miningman! (It would have been nice to see a 2-8-4 and 4-6-4 preserved in the Canadian Railway Museum.)

TH&B 2-8-4 201 at Montrose Ontario...

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TH&B 2-8-4 201 on the ready track...

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TH&B 2-8-4 201 on a string of outside-braced box cars...

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TH&B 2-8-4 202...good-looking units...

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TH&B 2-8-4 202 on a long string of manifest freight...

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TH&B 4-6-4 501 in Toronto...

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TH&B 501 gettin' the lead out...

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TH&B 4-6-4 501 one more time...going somewhere in hurry...

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TH&B 4-6-4 502 at St. Thomas Roundhouse - pristine condition...

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, February 25, 2017 4:52 PM

Well thank you kgbw49. The fifth photo down of the 202 at Welland states 1961...that should be 1951...they were off the roster and scrapped in '53. 

As I've mentioned before in other postings I grew up with these locomotive's. It is such a shame that one of the Hudson's was not saved. The Hudsons and Berks never even got a chance to be humiliated by standing in a dead line for a while. They were brought to the turntable on their last trip, not inside the roundhouse, their tenders removed immediately and there they stood tenderless on a spare roundhouse track. Quickly stripped of bells and whistles and lamps then off to the steel mills in Hamilton 10 minutes away. Parents NYC and CPR were ruthless. GP7's and a bit later torpedo tubed GP9's took over. Poof gone.

 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, February 25, 2017 5:36 PM

pajrr

Firelock, I am right next door to you in Fair Lawn, The Bergen County Line. I had an exhibit on the Erie RR in the Fair Lawn Library in Oct.2016. Maybe you saw it?

 

Unfortunately no, Lady Firestorm and I moved to Virginia thirty years ago, although it sure doesn't seem that long.  We DO come back at least once a year to see how the place is getting along without us, also to get our diner and bakery fixes, we have neither in the part of Virginia where we live, at least not like Jersey has.

Lady Firestorm's brother "Big B" lives in Fair Lawn though. If you remember a big guy, about 6'2" who looks like a PO'd Santa Claus coming to your exhibit, guess what?  That was him!  You might also run into him at the Radburn station or in one of the towns bakeries.

We'll be back again this year, fourth week in May, so if you've got another exhibit going we'll be sure to come and see it!

Last time there I did take a walk over to the Radburn station to watch the Jersey Transit action, and that was fun.  I was also amazed at how little the station has changed since it was built in 1914.  Using the men's room was like being a time traveler!

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Posted by pajrr on Sunday, February 26, 2017 4:47 AM

Firelock, the station is being renovated-----new roof, redoing the waiting room and ticket office, etc. The building will be locked up for several months during the springtime. The brains at NJT wanted to have the station closed NOW, during winter. So much fuss was raised that they shifted the work schedule. Who in their right minds would close a station in the middle of winter? But then again, we are talking government agency, not normal people. If you want to see my exhibit that I had go here:     http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/206550-erie-railroad-exhibit

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, February 26, 2017 10:20 AM

Wow, gorgeous displays!  My compliments, and thanks for the link!  I lucked into two Erie lanterns myself over the years, both steam era, but that's as far as my Erie "collection" goes.

And tell 'em to leave that Radburn station men's room alone! If you're a history buff of railroads and plumbing it's not to be missed!  They'll probably destroy the "ambiance" of the place anyway.

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Posted by jumper on Monday, March 06, 2017 9:51 PM
All beautiful pictures and engines. Thanks! Great memories.
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Posted by jumper on Monday, March 06, 2017 9:52 PM
Is the first picture the Starucca Viaduct?
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Posted by pajrr on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 2:11 AM

Yes, Starucca. It still sees a handful of freight trains each week.

RME
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Posted by RME on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 8:39 AM

jumper
Is the first picture the Starucca Viaduct?

No.  Starrucca.

... of course, Wikipedia couldn't get it right in the caption to the Cropsey painting, either.

Hard to believe it only took 'em a year to build.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 4:52 PM

Hey, it only took 18 months to build the Empire State Building.

Those guys back then knew how to work!

No disrepect intended to anyone in the contruction trades nowadays, but I have to wonder sometimes.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 5:36 PM

I'd also expect the permitting did not take as long either.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 5:45 PM

Starrucca Viaduct from various perspectives...

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Oops, wrong viaduct (Moodna), but a fun photo of C&O 614 nonetheless...

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Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 5:51 PM

Got to love Starrucca Viaduct, like a little bit of Ancient Rome in the heart of Pennsylvania.

And great shot of "World Famous"  Moodna Viaduct!  I was on one of those C&O 614 excursions, what a gas! 

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Posted by pajrr on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 7:21 PM

I rode all of the 614 trips. I worked as a volunteer trainman on 4 of them. We had O Winston Link on the last trip. He rode the crew car the whole trip and we put an N&W hooter whistle on the locomotive

 

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Posted by kgbw49 on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 8:18 PM

Erie Berkshire hoofin' it through Delong IN...

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Erie Mikado in Rochester IN...

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Erie's fast freighter before the 3300s...

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Erie Berkshire successor at Marion OH in 1955...

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Erie Mikado in what looks to be either New York or New Jersey...

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Erie Mikado caboose hop...

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Erie big-barreled Berkshire making time at an undetermined location...

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Erie Berkshire ducking under a flyover...

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Erie Mikado on a local freight at an undetermined location...

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Erie Limited...

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Erie Limited on the flatlands...

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Erie commuter competitor...

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Erie Berkshire "Four of a Kind" 3333 in Chicago IL...

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Erie Limited with honorary steam locomotives...

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Erie Limited in Ohio...

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 9:42 PM

kgbw49- Nice journey into yesteryear..gets me relaxed just studying those pics. In virtually every picture the track is immaculate...well groomed, no junk anywhere, no garbage...even in the urban areas.

I remember those days very well and I have to say that I am so grateful that I can still recall the feeling, the senses, the purpose of it all.

Those workers may not have had a college degree but their jobs required high skills and intelligence. 

Of course we have progressed and left those times behind. We now have 20 Trillion in debt, speakers shouted down and roughed up on campus, smugness and elitism looking down on working folks, country folks, folks in the interior...you know those that retain a bit of skill and ingenuity and can take out a transmission. Miners that can drill, blast and muck out a round. Roundhouse workers who kept the steamers  functional. 

Of course the overcrowded airports and their wonderful odours, the friendliness of tight seating, not to mention the thrilling pat down's and intrusions. Much better than the Erie Limited. 

The Erie was a heck of great railroad, important...all but forgotten nowadays, a historical footnote, a few of us getting long in the tooth who remember first hand all of it, wherever we were. Keeping a torch lit. 

...But! We have progressed beyond those images, right? 

 

 

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Sunday, March 12, 2017 9:07 AM

We do a poor job of preserving any kind of industrial equipment. How many steam shovels or cranes survive today? We did a bit better with steam locos as to the number of preserved first generation diesels. Not many Baldwin sharks around, PA's all but gone. Early trollies didn't fare well, PCC cars oddly survive and still operates. Only a tiny tiny faction of steam ships passengers or freighters still exist. I suppose business consideration Trump's the desire or need for preservation.  Either way it's sad.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, March 12, 2017 9:38 AM

pajrr

I rode all of the 614 trips. I worked as a volunteer trainman on 4 of them. We had O Winston Link on the last trip. He rode the crew car the whole trip and we put an N&W hooter whistle on the locomotive

 

 

You know pajrr, we MAY have run into each other without realizing it.  When I rode two 614 excursions in succeeding years I wore a N&W 611 sweatshirt, full color and titled "The Thoroughbred."  I was in mourning for 611 as this wasn't too long after the NS steam program had been cancelled.  I can't tell you how many railfans on the 614 trips asked me if I'd ridden behind 611 and when they got an affimative answer they asked  "What happened?"

"I don't know," I said. "There's so many rumors flying around Virginia about it it's a case of pick the story you like and stick with it, no-one can say you're wrong."

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, March 12, 2017 9:40 AM

ROBERT WILLISON

We do a poor job of preserving any kind of industrial equipment. How many steam shovels or cranes survive today? We did a bit better with steam locos as to the number of preserved first generation diesels. Not many Baldwin sharks around, PA's all but gone. Early trollies didn't fare well, PCC cars oddly survive and still operates. Only a tiny tiny faction of steam ships passengers or freighters still exist. I suppose business consideration Trump's the desire or need for preservation.  Either way it's sad.

 

The preservation of the things you mentioned certainly could have been better, but you have to remember the problem with BIG antiques is one way or another they still have to earn their keep, and if they can't, oblivion.

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Sunday, March 12, 2017 10:06 AM

Firelock76

 

 
ROBERT WILLISON

We do a poor job of preserving any kind of industrial equipment. How many steam shovels or cranes survive today? We did a bit better with steam locos as to the number of preserved first generation diesels. Not many Baldwin sharks around, PA's all but gone. Early trollies didn't fare well, PCC cars oddly survive and still operates. Only a tiny tiny faction of steam ships passengers or freighters still exist. I suppose business consideration Trump's the desire or need for preservation.  Either way it's sad.

 

 

 

The preservation of the things you mentioned certainly could have been better, but you have to remember the problem with BIG antiques is one way or another they still have to earn their keep, and if they can't, oblivion.

 Very true but I I think the Brits do a bit better than we have. As a culture with a history much older than our own, may be a greater appreciation of history to the degree they are building new steamers based on the oldie Goldie's.
We have a throwaway culture, out with the old in with the new. Unfortunately their were no new steamers to replace the last generation. With diesels, early units became trade in foder, making it more attractive to buy a replacement.
Same thing is happening with the second generation diesels. You have to credit general electric which has found a way to preserve its histortu by donating several units to the museum in Northeast  PA.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, March 12, 2017 10:47 AM

[quote user="ROBERT WILLISON"]

We do a poor job of preserving any kind of industrial equipment. How many steam shovels or cranes survive today? We did a bit better with steam locos as to the number of preserved first generation diesels. Not many Baldwin sharks around, PA's all but gone. Early trollies didn't fare well, PCC cars oddly survive and still operates. Only a tiny tiny faction of steam ships passengers or freighters still exist. I suppose business consideration Trump's the desire or need for preservation.  Either way it's sad.

[/quote above]
 
PCCs survive only partly because of nostalgia.  They were an extremely well-designed car, and they can still do a job today, matching quiet, riding comfort, acceleration, braking, and speed with modern streetcars built for-on-streeet operation.  They operated in interurban as well as city service.
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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Sunday, March 12, 2017 11:29 AM

[quote user="daveklepper"]

[quote user="ROBERT WILLISON"]

We do a poor job of preserving any kind of industrial equipment. How many steam shovels or cranes survive today? We did a bit better with steam locos as to the number of preserved first generation diesels. Not many Baldwin sharks around, PA's all but gone. Early trollies didn't fare well, PCC cars oddly survive and still operates. Only a tiny tiny faction of steam ships passengers or freighters still exist. I suppose business consideration Trump's the desire or need for preservation.  Either way it's sad.

[/quote above]
 
PCCs survive only partly because of nostalgia.  They were an extremely well-designed car, and they can still do a job today, matching quiet, riding comfort, acceleration, braking, and speed with modern streetcars built for-on-streeet operation.  They operated in interurban as well as city service.
 

[/quote] + 1

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, March 12, 2017 12:13 PM

To me, rel;ics from the past that are still really useful today and earning their keep at what they were first desigined to do are worthyof real admiration.  People commute regularly on San Francisco's F line, with its regular sue of Peter Witts and PCCs.  Now Garrad Avenue, Route 15, in Philadelphia is doing the same.   Outstanding is the Manx Electric Railway, a sseacoast itnerurban with find scenery and regular service between Douiglas, Laxey, and Ramsey, using its original crica 1892 equipment, kept in excellent working order.  There is aoso a steam train from Doiuglas to Cambleton, with tank engines and slam-door comaprtment coaches. And Douglas has a seacoast horsecar line that connects with the interurban.  But we all know how lucky British railfans are with nearly every weekend one or more mainline steam excursions, but that is not really working transportation, or is it?  Blackpool has modernized its classic seacoast tram line, but runs a regular heritage service with its own stops on the same tracks during the summer tourist season, and  regular riders have choice on their commutes.

We have an imported Turkish 2-8-0 on display painted to duuplicate very similar locomotives that operated under the British Mandate and after, and there is talk about restoring it to oepration, but not near enough money has yet been raised.  None of the standard gauge "Palestinian" locomotives were saved, only one narrow gauge in the musuem in Haifa..  

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