Next New Build In The UK

14475 views
86 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December, 2008
  • From: Toronto, Canada
  • 1,116 posts
Posted by 54light15 on Friday, November 03, 2017 9:49 AM

I will do that for sure! Thanks so much. 

  • Member since
    January, 2002
  • 3,190 posts
Posted by M636C on Saturday, November 04, 2017 7:33 PM

There is an amazing range of locomotives being built in the UK now, and a number already running, some being built new and some being modified from existing locomotives.

A complete new build is 5551 "The Unknown Warrior", a Patriot class locomotive of the former London Midland and Scottish Railway. Given the locomotive's name, the plan is to have it complete and running by Remembrance Day, 11 November 2018. This is only a year away, and the locomotive is relatively complete apart from the boiler. The boiler will be built in the UK and not in Germany where the boilers for 2007 and 60163 originate.

Another locomotive is 2999 "Lady of Legend", a Great Western "Saint" class. Because the GWR had very standardised locomotives, 2999 is being built using components of a Hall class locomotive. New larger diameter driving wheels have been cast and a number of new details. 2999 can be adapted to run as both a 4-6-0 and a 4-4-2 as earlier members of the class operated.

6880 "Betton Grange" is another variation of GWR 4-6-0, in this case with smaller driving wheels than a "Hall" class.

Yet another GWR 4-6-0, 1014 "County of Glamorgan" is under construction using the frame of a later "modified Hall" and a boiler from an LMS 8F 2-8-0. Progress has been slow recently, although the chassis is more or less complete.

Great Western 5101 class 2-6-2T no 5193 was rebuilt as a 2-6-0 numbered 9351. It has a "No 2" boiler rather than the larger "No 4" used on the 2-6-0s (although the boilers are interchangeable).

Another 5101 is the basis for two more complicated restorations, 4115 will provide cylinders, wheelsets and frame components to a new large 2-8-0 4709 and its boiler will be used on a new 4-4-2T number 2221.

A new BR Standard 3MT 2-6-2 tank, 82045 is nearly complete.

A new BR 6MT Pacific, 72010 "Hengist" is being constructed.

I'm sure there are others I've omitted...

A partner to "Lyn", a new 600mm 2-6-2T "Lyd", No E190 is complete but is used on the Festiniog and West Highland railways, for example.

Peter

  • Member since
    January, 2015
  • 1,040 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, November 04, 2017 10:22 PM

Thanks for the tip. Unknown Warrior looks to be a very robust 4-6-0!

http://www.lms-patriot.org.uk/galleries/555145551

 

  • Member since
    January, 2015
  • 1,040 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Monday, November 06, 2017 8:06 PM

Here is a link to the Pacific project “Hengist” (name corrected with an assist from M636C - thank you!)

https://www.theclanproject.org/

That is another “Jurassic Park“ project— bringing back an extinct class!

And a great collection of historic photos of the dual-service Clan class in both passenger and freight service.

  • Member since
    January, 2015
  • 1,040 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Tuesday, November 07, 2017 7:50 PM

Thanks again to M636C, here is the link to 82045 2-6-2T:

http://www.82045.org.uk/

These were very modern locomotives and one wonders if with some modification these would be useful even on tourist railroads in the US.

  • Member since
    January, 2002
  • 3,190 posts
Posted by M636C on Thursday, November 09, 2017 5:47 AM

kgbw49

Here is a link to the Pacific project “Clan Hengist”:

https://www.theclanproject.org/

That is another “Jurassic Park“ project— bringing back an extinct class!

And a great collection of historic photos of the dual-service Clan class in both passenger and freight service.

 
Just one point:
 
The name is Just "Hengist" not "Clan Hengist"
Five locomotives were ordered for use in Southern England, and had the names:
72010 Hengist, 72011 Horsa, 72012 Canute, 72013 Wildfire, 72014 Firebrand.
 
Hengist and Horsa were brothers and were leaders of the Saxons in Kent.
 
Clan names were resumed for the next fifteen proposed locomotives.
 
Despite there being 25 clan names, it didn't include Clan MacPherson which my late father assured me was the clan my family belonged to.
 
To return to the Class 3 locomotives, the 2-6-2 tanks and the related 2-6-0 tender locomotives. These sat between smaller Class 2 and larger Class 4 locomotives. The BR Standard Class 2 and Class 4 were developed from locomotives built by the London Midland and Scottish, which were built for BR until the standard versions were complete. Both these types were built in large numbers. The Class 3s were designed to fit a "niche" where more powerful locomotives were needed but the track was too light for the larger Class 4s. As a result, relatively few Class 3s were built.
 
Peter
  • Member since
    August, 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 7,683 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, November 09, 2017 7:50 PM

kgbw49

Thanks for the tip. Unknown Warrior looks to be a very robust 4-6-0!

http://www.lms-patriot.org.uk/galleries/555145551

 

 

Robust indeed!  I just looked at the pictures, and "Warrior" is a good name for that locomotive.  Big, brawny, and no-nonsense.

By the way, did you know the "Unknown Warrior" in Westminster Abbey is the only entombment there (with a memorial stone marking the place on the floor) that no-one EVER walks on? 

After all, he is the representative of all the British Empire fallen in the First World War.

  • Member since
    January, 2002
  • 3,190 posts
Posted by M636C on Friday, November 10, 2017 8:07 AM

The "Patriot" design had its origin in the London and North Western Railway "Claughton" class, a four cylinder 4-6-0 introduced in 1913. Because of the war, the last locomotives weren't built until 1921. More than half the locomotives were built after the war. Sadly these were very high maintenance and not particularly reliable.

In 1927, a modern three cylinder class, the "Royal Scot" was introduced which was dramatically better and seventy were built. There was still a need for a locomotive for lighter track and a larger boiler was designed for the Claughton and ten locomotives were upgraded, five with Caprotti poppet valves. This still wasn't enough.

Then someone thought "The enlarged Claughton boiler is quite good, why don't we fit it to a Royal Scot chassis and get a lighter version of a reliable locomotive". One of the pre-war Claughtons, 5902 was "rebuilt" with a Royal Scot chassis, although the original bogie and coupled wheels were used. 51 more were built with the last ten regarded as new.

The build continued until Stanier arrived from the Great Western, and he substituted a GWR style taper boiler on the existing Royal Scot style chassis. This new boiler proved less effective than that on the "Patriot" at first, but eventually became just as effective and 191 more locomotives were built in all, called the "Jubilee" class after King George V's Silver Jubilee.

The name "Patriot" came from a LNWR Claughton (number 1914) which was a war memorial locomotive. The three cylinder rebuilds were universally known as "Baby Scots" since they were, and looked like, a smaller "Royal Scot". Management hated the "Baby Scot" name, so transferred the name "Patriot" to the first rebuild, renumbered by then to 5500, making that the class title.

Four of the 191 "Jubilees", similar to the "Patriot" except for the boiler, are preserved, two in working order.

Peter

  • Member since
    January, 2015
  • 1,040 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, November 11, 2017 3:26 PM
  • Member since
    June, 2002
  • 13,491 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, November 12, 2017 1:03 AM

WOW.    So maybe some year, maybe 100 years from now, someone in the USA will have a Y-7 built!

  • Member since
    January, 2015
  • 1,040 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Tuesday, November 21, 2017 6:14 PM

Here is some information on Great Western 4-6-0 2999 - another "Jurassic Park" resurrection of an extinct locomotive class (with thanks to M636C). It is called "The Saint Project", not to be confused with the great TV series that ran from 1962 to 1969, starring Roger Moore as Simon Templar.

http://www.thesaintproject.co.uk/Pages/SaintProject.html

Also of great interest - again thanks to M636C - here is a link to a 4-4-2 wheel configuration with the same boiler mounted over the running gear. This one is not being brought back from extinction - yet. But the way things are going over in the UK, just give them some time and they'll get to it eventually!

http://www.thesaintproject.co.uk/Pages/AtlanticOption.html

Fascinating stuff and a tip o' the hat to the absolutely amazing steam builders in the UK!

 

 

  • Member since
    January, 2015
  • 1,040 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Wednesday, December 13, 2017 7:41 AM

Another Jurassic Park project in the UK is the new build of an LNER B17 Class 4-6-0, bringing that class back from extinction.

http://www.b17steamloco.com/project

Apparently it is the only 4-6-0 designed by Sir Nigel Gresley.

25 of the class were named after football clubs, and still another B17 is being built new - 61662 Manchester United.

http://www.engine61662appeal.co.uk/footballers.html

http://www.engine61662appeal.co.uk/news_updates/2017/nov_17.pdf

With 80” drivers, they were high speed express passenger engines.

 

  • Member since
    January, 2015
  • 1,040 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Thursday, December 28, 2017 7:44 PM

Bouncing off the 82045 2-6-2t project, which would seem to be a great idea for future tourist or excursion lines, here is a link to some old color footage of another tank engine from The Queen’s Dominion of Canada. It is a Canadian National 4-6-4t that was used in New England in excursion service for a period of time and now sits intact at Steamtoan USA. It is a different wheel arrangement than 82045 but certainly demonstrates the efficacy of the concept.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TqAmm5WaZ-I

 

  • Member since
    January, 2015
  • 1,040 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Monday, January 08, 2018 10:01 PM

Based on this post from January 7, 2018, it looks like 2007 will be getting wheels this year.

https://www.p2steam.com/category/news/

 

  • Member since
    January, 2015
  • 1,040 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, February 10, 2018 7:13 PM

Things are picking up in Darlington - it is really starting to look like a locomotive and may be wheeled in spring.

https://www.p2steam.com/

 

  • Member since
    January, 2002
  • 3,190 posts
Posted by M636C on Sunday, February 11, 2018 4:16 AM

A recent copy of the magazine "Railway Herald" gave some details of the V4 2-6-2 which is to follow the P2 2007. Apparently a full set of wheel castings exist, from an earlier project to build a new V4 and these are now with the A1 group.

Peter

  • Member since
    December, 2008
  • From: Toronto, Canada
  • 1,116 posts
Posted by 54light15 on Sunday, February 11, 2018 10:57 AM

I've put it on another thread but you can see the Tornado in the film, "Paddington 2." There are views of the cab, I mean "footplate" and several lineside shots. 

  • Member since
    January, 2002
  • 3,190 posts
Posted by M636C on Monday, February 12, 2018 4:39 AM

54light15

I've put it on another thread but you can see the Tornado in the film, "Paddington 2." There views of the cab, I mean "footplate" and several lineside shots. 

 
The international movie trailer and the USA movie trailer both show 60163  running with the headboard "Belmond British Pullman" and an additional headboard "Cunard" suggesting that it was supposed to be working a Pullman (Parlor) train to a cruise liner terminal. The ex LMS Hughes "Crab" 2-6-0 13065 is seen hauling what appears to be a circus train on a track parallel to 60163 and one of the actors is seen stepping from one train to another. In another scene, the villian (a thief who disguises himself as Paddington) and Paddington are seen chasing eachother on the circus train, and apparently at least one circus tran van is derailed...
 
Peter
 
  • Member since
    December, 2008
  • From: Toronto, Canada
  • 1,116 posts
Posted by 54light15 on Monday, February 12, 2018 9:17 AM

They call it a "steam fair" in the movie. Must be British nomenclature. I've seen the Belmond train, it's a high-end dinner train that goes often from Paddington station to Bristol. Other places as well. The last time I saw it, it was pulled by the Clan Line, a Merchant Navy class. 

  • Member since
    September, 2003
  • 5,116 posts
Posted by Overmod on Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM

54light15
They call it a "steam fair" in the movie. Must be British nomenclature.

Just a tad more complicated.  The enthusiast meaning of 'steam fair' for many years has been a gathering of steam-power enthusiasts (Sandstone being one that comes to mind).  But the older meaning is a circus that is staged and struck, lighted, and otherwise facilitated by steam machinery -- the sort of thing for which a Fowler Showman's Engine was explicitly designed.

See here:

http://www.carterssteamfair.co.uk

which is from what they say the outfit in the movie.

 

  • Member since
    January, 2002
  • 3,190 posts
Posted by M636C on Monday, February 12, 2018 4:42 PM

Until recently, the "Belmond" train was known as the "Venice Simplon Oroent Express British Pullman" and its original purpose was to provide a connection to the ferry at Dover for the VSOE which departed from Calais. It did provide dining trips in the UK with that title.

Possibly due to SNCF insisting that it owns the name "Orient Express", only the VSOE train itself now uses that name and the Belmond name is used for the train in the UK (which presumably still provides a VSOE connection.).

Two of the cars in the Belmond Pullman came from the electric "Brighton Belle", and can be recoginised by their slightly inward sloping sides to meet clearance restrictions. An electric Brighton Belle set is being restored now and brought  up to the standard required for main line running, but it won't require either of the two Belmond cars. Three five cars sets were built in 1933 and many of the cars survive in varying condition.

Peter

  • Member since
    December, 2008
  • From: Toronto, Canada
  • 1,116 posts
Posted by 54light15 on Tuesday, February 13, 2018 9:56 AM

I've been to the Barrow Hill roundhouse during an open house where they are restoring the Brighton Belle. I've restored classic cars before and the process seems to be about the same except everything is heavy. I look forward to riding it. 

I think, but I could be wrong, is that the circus train in the movie is CGI. 

  • Member since
    January, 2002
  • 3,190 posts
Posted by M636C on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 5:07 PM

54light15

I've been to the Barrow Hill roundhouse during an open house where they are restoring the Brighton Belle. I've restored classic cars before and the process seems to be about the same except everything is heavy. I look forward to riding it. 

I think, but I could be wrong, is that the circus train in the movie is CGI. 

I've only seen the trailer, but a couple of shots of 13065 look real to me.

It appears to be hauling a load of box vans which may have been painted up as a circus train. The shots with the actor and Paddington on the train look like an old fashioned mock up in a studio with back projection, probably a green screen now.

The actor stepping from one train to another looks like a green screen effort with prerecorded images of the trains, maybe with a nock up of 60163....

I'm sure the derailed circus train wagon is CGI...

Peter

  • Member since
    January, 2002
  • 3,190 posts
Posted by M636C on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 7:41 PM

For reasons that aren't clear even to me, my reference to studio mock-ups o british freight wagons in "Paddington 2" reminded me of a very early Alfred Hitchcock movie  "Number Seventeen". The first three quarters of the film is set in a house with the street number in the title, and is in film noir style with dark shadows and disappearing bodies and characters arriving to add to the mystery of the plot. It isn't at all clear what is happening until near the end.

The relevance of this is that the house has a flight of stairs leading down to railway tracks. This is introduced by a scene of LNER Gresley Pacific 2547, then an A1, I think, standing in the dark, brightly lit by unseen lights.

The whole cast from the house descend to the train in two groups and board wagons on the train which departs, except for one who commandeers a passing bus and gives chase to the train.

One group, possibly supposed to be the  heroes, board a long wheelbase train ferry van, chasin others who appear to be the criminals. For reasons not immediately clear, the criminals climb over the rear of the corridor tender and shoot the locomotive crew, only to realise they don't know how to stop the train.

The train continues at speed, represented by a scale model (maybe "O" ot "1" gauge) closely pursued by the bus, both illiuminated internally to represent the night scene (all in the absence of CGI in the 1930s).

The train is found to be headed for a train ferry, and there are scenes of a real ferry being loaded. Then it is back to a model and the train in question arrives at speed smashes some wagons, causes the ferry to break away from the wharf with the locomotive plunging into the water and the wagons with the characters also falling in the water.

The criminals are captured, the heroine rescued from the sinking ferry van, and the man from the bus assists in all of this.

One of the pursuing group states that he is a well known detective from Scotland Yard, and claims credit for stopping the smuggling of jewels to the Continent. The man from the bus expresses interest in this, points out that he is the detective in question and arrests the claimed detective as another smuggler trying to steal the jewels.

Much of the last part of the movie was filmed in quite reasonable mock ups of rail wagons, carefully lettered to match the real wagons in the few live scenes.

I recommend the movie to anyone who would like to see vintage night movie shots of a Gresley Pacific. Hitchcock was a pioneer in lghting and photographic technique at that time.

Peter

  • Member since
    December, 2008
  • From: Toronto, Canada
  • 1,116 posts
Posted by 54light15 on Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:27 AM

Hitchcock was all about the suspense. And blondes. 

  • Member since
    January, 2002
  • 3,190 posts
Posted by M636C on Thursday, February 15, 2018 6:03 PM

54light15

Hitchcock was all about the suspense. And blondes. 

 
The recent Hitchcock biography movie about the making of "Psycho" covered both those aspects pretty well. But there was good technical camera work in "Psycho"  too... I loved the scene in the bio where Hitchcock was alone in the cinema foyer during the first showng of the "Psycho" movie, dancing around to the distinctive theme music for the murder scene. If it wasn't true, it should have been.....
 
Another of Hitchcock's pre war British movies, "The Lady Vanishes" had the same basic plot as "Murder on the Orient Express" as far as the train being snowed in in far Eastern Europe, but with a kidnapping in place of the murder.
 
Apparently in a bar scene early in the movie, Hitchcock wanted to film across a table with a plate and a wineglass in the foreground. With the film and lighting available, there wasn't enough depth of field to do this, so a huge wine glass, plate and table top were made and placed closer to the actors to give the desired effect. And I think the heroine in that move was a brunette....
 
Peter 
  • Member since
    December, 2008
  • From: Toronto, Canada
  • 1,116 posts
Posted by 54light15 on Friday, February 16, 2018 9:06 AM

I've seen "The Lady Vanishes" and don't recall that. Time to see it again. And then there's "The 39 Steps" with scenes on the Forth bridge. 

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy

Search the Community