Excellent news on the 2102.
It appears that the answer to your question is "yes".
http://www.rbmnrr.com/happenings/2016/1/21/steam-locomotive-no-2102-slated-to-return-in-service
Wislish,
You are correct, I checked my old Hagerstown photos for the coal fired details of RDG 2100 at the time of the 1987 "2100 Corporation" rebuild.
Doc
I'm not sure why you have Kughen and Ross Rowland restoring the locomotive with oil firing; Ross himself considered the installation dangerously crude and has said so repeatedly.
The conversion was discussed at some length in RyPN, and was apparently a conversion done by people who were knowledgeable in the general subject of industrial burners. Problem is that the fire conditions in a typical coal firebox are very different from those produced in a typical 'industrial' furnace, and in particular the geometry of the T-1 Wootten-style box apparently doesn't lend itself well to a single-plume high-mounted pressure burner that does not impinge on refractory for turbulent mixing.
Note the CP oil firing reference provided, and the repeated mention that one of the points of the conversion as performed was that it be 'easily reversible' to get the engine back to coal burning -- hence the installation in the plated firedoor area, the relatively high mounting, and the 'firing from the back' rather than the throat. I have to wonder whether the reported Canadian example was one of the many designs 'specified' in the late '40s during the coal-mine troubles when many roads -- N&W, for a notable and surprising example -- designed and specified oil conversions for steam locomotives. Of course those conversions would be undone as soon as the coal 'emergency' was resolved... presumably with minimum trouble in minimum time...
In case you are wondering about the presence of a transfer pump, pressurized lines in the cab, and other undesirable details -- the fuel would have to be raised from the bunker when the level fell below burner level, and the burner is mechanical rather than a laminar von Boden-Ingles style (which if I am not mistaken requires a supply of steam to 'start' from cold).
Quite frankly, I think that 2100's fuel 'problem' can be relatively easily addressed via a combination of multiple ports/burners (and some secondary-air shuttering) at the rear, and some turbulence-causing refractory on or around the firepan. (A similar approach is described in a couple of the earliest references on oil firing for steam locomotives, interestingly enough).
It might be possible to produce a plume of luminous flame that 'just fills' the firebox volume appropriately with a mechanical burner like this, but that would require much more control complexity and load following than I'd expect any human fireman to be able to cope with, let alone utilize. Meanwhile, the result appears to be exactly what could be predicted: at any turnup that produces reasonable horsepower capacity from the locomotive, you get flame impingement and overheating at some points in the firebox structure long before you get proper heat transfer to many other firebox surfaces. The long, flat plume from a von Boden-Ingles burner is less likely to experience this... but I think it's fairly well established that this kind of setup benefits much more from injection backward over the firepan from the throat (and subsequent rise and return through the upper box and crown under draft) than when you fire from the back and by necessity rely on quick combustion and a quick passthrough (which for many reasons you're unlikely to get consistently on an operating locomotive...) I am not surprised that Bob Harbison noted the improvement in firing when the rear-mounted jet was 'turbulated'...
The good news is that we can expect the firing to be competently addressed now, regardless of what kind of firing is ultimately used.
n012944,
I appreciate your point, however, some websites posts do not always have a knowledgable perspective. I am sure if you re-read the Reading 2100 website you will note the very fine condition RDG 2100 is in.
RDG 2100 was restored by Richard Kuhn - correct spelling of his name is Richard Kughen - whom I know personally - after he formed "2100 Corporation" in 1987. This company included Ross Rowland and Bill Benson.
Richard Kughen made his really big bucks in real estate development and construction of skyscrapers in Detroit - an individual similar to Donald Trump. Kughen bought Lionel Trains as a hobby and owned an extensive antique car collection and antique auto restoration business in Novi, Michigan. Forbes Magazine called him "The King of Classic Cars. He is 85 years old now and is Director of Conceivex Inc., Chairman of Metopolitan Reality LLC, and Director of Core Industries Inc.
"2100 Corporation" restored RDG 2100 over 30 years ago and Kughen, Benson and Rowland could not find venue from a class 1 carrier railroad to operate RDG 2100 excursions. The restoration was extensive and was done back when the Interstate Commerce Commission did all the regulation of steam locomotive boiler certification. In 1996 President Ronald Reagan disolved the ICC. The Federal Railway Administration picked up the certification testing procedure which now govern steam locomotive operations - basically ultrasounding the boiler and hydro-static testing the boiler under hydraulic pressure. Certification runs 1472 days or 15 years if you use the engine or if you don't - then it has to be re-done. The engine can be operated under steam out of that time frame if in transit for repair.
Re-certification of the boiler test is likely the issue. I do not know what Tom Payne and the group in Washington state did to the engine but oil fired steam locomotives when done right are a historical fact and it would seem Tom Payne has done a "half ass" job of conversion - likely the hired commercial help had something to do with the disfunctional firebox situation.
Union Pacific has picked up the "oil fired" technology with UP 844 and UP 4016. Historically many railroads in America developed successful oil fired technology from Texas & Pacific to the Atchison Topeka & Santa Fe.
The cost of "coaling" a steam locomotive is incentive for some operators to go with oil fire, although I personally like to see a coal burner remain with its original fuel. If Payne went to all the trouble to convert the tender to oil fire and remove the stoker I think he would have gone to the trouble of installing a standard steam locomotive style burner system. If not I am sure that this can be fabricated fairly easily using the technique developed by major locomotive builders in the United States from the steam era.
Skip Farrington's book on Santa Fe Big Three notes the many oil fire problem the AT&SF railroad had with "brand new" oil fired steam locomotives they purchased from Baldwin Locomotive Works. Sometimes it took quite a bit of railroad shop work to "dial in" the burners in the firebox set up. Extensive testing of a new locomotive over many trips was often required to get the flame, brick arch, drafting and nozzle sizes to work correctly.
In today's business world $700,000 is not much of a price tag - a moderately good size house in the Detroit suburbs would cost this much. Repair of an accidentally damaged commercial jet airliner accidentally "bumped" at the airport can run $2,000,000 for example.
Dr D There are 4 surviving Reading RR T-1 2100 series engines. ---------------- RR 2100 - The Reading Railroad Rambles excursion engine from the 1950's that was sold for scrap in 1965 to Streigel Equipment and Supply Co. of Baltimore, MD. Saved from scrap by Ross Rowland in 1975 as a "spare parts supply" engine for his restoration of RR 2101. In 1987 RR 2100 was sold to "2100 Corporation" and rebuilt by millionare Richard Kuhn who owned Lionel Electric Trains but he never ran the restored Locomotive. Kuhn reportedly spent $1,000,000 on the restoration. RR 2100 Has the tender from RR 2101 which was damaged in the roundhouse fire that destroyed RR 2101 - Ross Rowland switched the tenders on RR 2100 and RR 2101 before it went to display in the Baltimore And Ohio Railroad Museum. Richard Kuhn restored the fire damaged RR 2101 tender and converted it to use oil fuel. Kuhn unable to run the engine donated it to Portage Ohio Regional Transportation Authority (PORTA) who sold it at auction. Purchased by Tom Payne in September 1998 and moved to St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada. The engine was moved to the state of Washington, USA. The engine was then shipped to Cleveland in April 2015 pending excursion operation. The only T-1 in FULLY RESTORED CONDITION ready to run on oil fuel. Designed with a Wootton firebox for slow burning anthracite coal, yet run by Reading RR on hotter soft bituminous coal, and now set up by Richard Kuhn for oil fire operation! Fully restored, fully operational, RR 2100 has not officially run any excursion trains since 1964!
There are 4 surviving Reading RR T-1 2100 series engines.
----------------
RR 2100 - The Reading Railroad Rambles excursion engine from the 1950's that was sold for scrap in 1965 to Streigel Equipment and Supply Co. of Baltimore, MD. Saved from scrap by Ross Rowland in 1975 as a "spare parts supply" engine for his restoration of RR 2101. In 1987 RR 2100 was sold to "2100 Corporation" and rebuilt by millionare Richard Kuhn who owned Lionel Electric Trains but he never ran the restored Locomotive. Kuhn reportedly spent $1,000,000 on the restoration. RR 2100 Has the tender from RR 2101 which was damaged in the roundhouse fire that destroyed RR 2101 - Ross Rowland switched the tenders on RR 2100 and RR 2101 before it went to display in the Baltimore And Ohio Railroad Museum. Richard Kuhn restored the fire damaged RR 2101 tender and converted it to use oil fuel. Kuhn unable to run the engine donated it to Portage Ohio Regional Transportation Authority (PORTA) who sold it at auction. Purchased by Tom Payne in September 1998 and moved to St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada. The engine was moved to the state of Washington, USA. The engine was then shipped to Cleveland in April 2015 pending excursion operation. The only T-1 in FULLY RESTORED CONDITION ready to run on oil fuel. Designed with a Wootton firebox for slow burning anthracite coal, yet run by Reading RR on hotter soft bituminous coal, and now set up by Richard Kuhn for oil fire operation! Fully restored, fully operational, RR 2100 has not officially run any excursion trains since 1964!
The 2100 is not in fully restored condition. According to the group doing the restoration, they need $700,000 for the restoration. From what I have read, the conversion to oil was a Rube Goldburg type conversion, that did some major damage to the firebox. Ross Rowland stated that the group that did the conversion and ran the engine in the northwest is lucky that there was not a serious injury as a result of the less than steller conversion.
https://www.fireup2100.org/2015/04/fire-up-reading-company-2100-announcement/
A discussion about the conversion
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,2120504
An "expensive model collector"
RR 2100 - The Reading Railroad Rambles excursion engine from the 1950's that was sold for scrap in 1965 to Streigel Equipment and Supply Co. of Baltimore, MD. Saved from scrap by Ross Rowland in 1975 as a "spare parts supply" engine for his restoration of RR 2101. In 1987 RR 2100 was sold to "2100 Corporation" and rebuilt by millionare Richard Kuhn who owned Lionel Electric Trains but he never ran the restored Locomotive. Kuhn reportedly spent $1,000,000 on the restoration. RR 2100 Has the tender from RR 2101 which was damaged in the roundhouse fire that destroyed RR 2101 - Ross Rowland switched the tenders on RR 2100 and RR 2101 before it went to display in the Baltimore And Ohio Railroad Museum. Richard Kuhn restored the fire damaged RR 2101 tender and I wonder if they will ever go back to the correct locomotives. Kuhn ws unable to run the engine and donated it to Portage Ohio Regional Transportation Authority (PORTA) who sold it at auction. Purchased by Tom Payne in September 1998 and moved to St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada. The engine was moved to the state of Washington, USA where it ran a few excursions. The engine was then shipped to Cleveland in April 2015 pending further maintaince and eventural operation. The only T-1 in HIGHLY RESTORED CONDITION ready to run on oil fuel. Designed with a Wootton firebox for slow burning anthracite coal, yet run by Reading RR on hotter soft bituminous coal, and now set up for oil fire operation! Restored, and operational, RR 2100 has pulled a few western excursion but has not officially run any eastern excursions since the 1964 Reading Railroad Rambles!
RR 2101 - The Reading Railroad Rambles excursion engine from the 1960's and sold in 1965 to Streigel Equipment Supply, Co. of Baltimore, MD. It was saved by Ross Rowland in 1975 and restored to operational condition in only 30 days to become the American Freedom Train engine that ran during the national bi-centenial celebration in 1976. The train carried George Washington's personal copy of the US Constitution - the original Louisiana Purchase - Judy Garland's dress from the Wizard of Oz move - Joe Fraiser's boxing trunks - ML King's pulpit and preaching robes - Jessie Owens 4 Olympic gold medals (one was stolen from the train) and a "moon rock" from the Apollo moon landing - on a national rail tour and displayed across the nation. RR 2101 then became a good will excursion engine used by the Cheasapeake And Ohio Railroad for it's Chessie Safety Special which ran excursion trains over the C&O in 1976. It was stored in Silver Grove, Kentucky for the 1979 winter and was destroyed in a roundhouse fire but was repainted and is on display at the B&O Railroad Museum in Baltimore, MD. RR 2101 is mechanically sound and can run again with further badly needed cosmetic restoration.
RR 2102 - The former Reading Railroad Rambles excursion engine that was sold on January 21, 1965 to Steam Tours Inc. of Akron, OH. and owned and operated in the 1970's for excursion service. In 1972 it was leased by Ross Rowland for excursion service by High Iron Co. prior to Ross getting involved in the National Bi-Centenial Celebration with RR 2101. April 1973 the locomotive was leased by Delaware And Hudson Railroad and re-painted and lettered as DH 302 for the railroad 150th birthday. Was sold in 1974 to Allegheny Co. and not used during a 3 yr overhaul. 1984 used in the film "Maria's Lovers." In 1986 was bought and used for excursion on Conrail and in 1998 stored in Port Clinton, PA. RR 2102 is still currently owned by Reading And Blue Mountain Railroad Co. and in need of repair. Reported on this site as stored in Jim Thorpe, PA.
RR 2124 - The former Reading Railroad Rambles excursion engine that was bought by Nelson Blount and included in the Steam Town USA collection at Bellows Falls, Vermont. The Steam Town locomotive collection was moved to Scranton, PA and bought by the National Park Service where it was given a cosmetic restoration in 1997. RR 2102 is currently on display at Steamtown USA National Park. Owned by the Federal Government RR2124 is the only T-1 engine that has not run since the 1960's Reading Railroad Rambles.
N6VCLooks like it will steam again. http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2016/01/21-t1
For those that don't bother with the Newswire, both RyPN and the 'official' source are covering this. And yes, I'm surprised there hasn't been more enthusiastic commentary about it...
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38984
Pictures there, too...
Looks like it will steam again. http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2016/01/21-t1
Firelock is right. The museum in Strasburg is the Railroad Museum of [the Commonwealth of] Pennsylvania (additions mine).
The museum was fortunate to receive the bulk of the Pennsylvania Railroad's steam collection; but they have NKP 2-8-4 757, three non-PRR geared steamers, a RDG 0-6-0t shop switcher, and lots of other stuff from other railroads including L.V., P&LE, and others. PRR was Pennsylvania's largest railroad by a wide margin, so it's appropriate for that museum to have all that PRR equipment. but the fact that the Strasburg museum has the largest collection of PRR steam and other equipment should never distract from the fact that they are interested in the histories and equipment of other railroads of the Commonwealth.
For the record, I, too. would love to see RDG 2102 in steam again. But I think a Reading T-1 --- any T-1--- belongs in the Strasburg collection. Some day 2102 will be beyond economical and practical repair and she'll be retired. I think Strasburg would be an ideal place. 2124 will probably never leave Steamtown, and 2101 will probably never leave Baltimore. That leaves 2100 (the "class" engine), or 2102.
From what I know of Andy Muller of the Reading and Northern he's been a steam fan from way back. I suspect in his heart of hearts he'd love to have 2102 steaming again himself, but for a variety of reason, probably all good, it's just not possible at this time. Too many irons in the fire, too many other things to do, who knows.
Just remember, everything comes to those who'll wait. I'm sure 2102 will steam again, just not in the immediate future.
They do have some Reading equipment on display at the RRMofPA. There's a "Crusader" observation, an MU car and the former Reading shop switcher: 0-6-0t #1251, off the top of my head. But, a 2100 would sure be a great addition.
Just a little correction: What's in Strasburg is "The Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania", not "The Pennsylvania Railroad Museum." The collection is certainly heavy with former PRR engines, but the museums interests don't stop there.
No reason at all not to have a Reading engine on display there.
By the way, I slip up myself from time to time and call it the "Pennsylvania Railroad Museum"! A fantastic place to visit, at any rate!
Well, I would have to agree with what you said about Hamburg. I'm sure they still have their hands full. As for Strasburg, it is after all the PENNSLVANIA Railroad Museum. I doubt very much they would take much interest in a Reading locomotive. Plus they don't do excursions.
Steamtown would be an interesting possibilty. But then I'm sure they have plenty of their budget taking care of the active steamers they already have. Plus they already have 2124. I suppose it's best where it is until someone can come up with funds to fire it up for an excursion. Don't have much hope of that since the whole Reading area has never been much of a tourist area. And like you, I would dearly love to see 2100 home again.
The museum in Hamburg? I admire the things the RDG historical folks are doing in Hamburg, but I am reminded of the old woman who lived in a shoe. I question whether they could ever give the 2102, or any T-1, a proper sheltered home. I suspect hey don't need another needy child to take care of. Maybe I'm wrong, and I certainly don't want to cast aspersions on that group. They are dedicated, hard-working, serious historians; but I suspect they would be limited in their ability to care for all their stuff in the long term, and a large steam loco would stretch their resources even further.
I'd like to think the RR Museum of PA in Strasburg would be a better retirement home for 2102, but I'd love to see her run under steam again before that happens. If 2102 can't go there, maybe somebody can find the funding to bring 2100 home from the Northwest.
Tom
Wouldn't it be great to have it on display at the museum in Hamburg? But then I suppose it would be stored outside. Better for now to have it inside like I last saw it in Port Clinton, even though the public can't see it. Sure hope somebody with money will do something with it.
ACY I don't have any inside info on the condition of 2101 (Freedom Train no. 1). It is generally understood that she was stored in a roundhouse for a winter, and her boiler was drained prior to storage. When the roundhouse burned, it is said that the temperatures became so high that the steel was damaged. If the boiler had been full of water, this might not have been the case. It is possible that my info is incorrect in some respect, but even if that is so, it is doubtful that 2101 will ever run again. Tom
I don't have any inside info on the condition of 2101 (Freedom Train no. 1). It is generally understood that she was stored in a roundhouse for a winter, and her boiler was drained prior to storage. When the roundhouse burned, it is said that the temperatures became so high that the steel was damaged. If the boiler had been full of water, this might not have been the case. It is possible that my info is incorrect in some respect, but even if that is so, it is doubtful that 2101 will ever run again.
Your info is entirely correct.
They can all run again. It just takes money, some more than others. Consider this - the 2102 is in decent appearance and kept inside. They should all be this lucky.
This situation has nothing to do with the status of 2102, which did not suffer fire damage. It is likely that 2102 could be steamed again if circumstances allow. I have no idea what those circumstances may be.
The 2102 still lives in my heart and mind. Rode behind her on the act excursions, out of Pittsburgh on the horseshoe cuver and on an excursion to Cass on the c&o out of roncerte west Virginia. A true beauty. Let's hope some time in the future she will steam again. It happen with 4014.
I'd be surprised if she really needs a new boiler. Steam locomotives have survived engine house/roundhouse fires before.
Regardless, I hope she's cosmetically restored someday at the very least.
But I'm confused, I thought it was the 2101 that endured this? The star of two of my favorite YouTube videos. Be sure to crank the volume up on the first one.
As far as I know, the 2102 is in pretty good shape and wouldn't need much attention to return to service and resides in Port Clinton, Pennsylvania.
Correct?
Just saw the 2124 a few weeks ago in Steamtown. Certainly is an attractive class of locomotives. I'm glad that several made it into preservation.
I look at it this way. Mr. Muller and the crew have no plans to restore 2102 to service at this time. It's probably at lot easier to say "no plans at all" than to get anyone's hopes up. Who knows what the future may bring?
The engine used on the Freedom Train was RDG 2101, now lettered as Freedom Train no. 1. Number 2102 is a dfferent engine of the same class.
I, too, would love to see 2102 again. I may have seen it in a doubleheader with 2100 taking on water in Tamaqua back in November of '63. Unfortunately, I had no camera. I last saw it a few years ago stored at Port Clinton. Has it actually been moved to Jim Thorpe?
2102 is my all-time favorite locomotive. She lives in my heart like no other engine ever has or ever will. As a little boy, I rode behind her on a couple of her excursion runs back in the early 70s (including around the Horseshoe Curve). Currently, she's owned by the Reading Blue Mountain Railroad, which is owned & run by Andy Muller, Jr. http://www.rbmnrr.com/
Sadly, due to having been run so much in excursion runs in the 80s and put back into coal-hauling service in the early 90s, poor old 2102 needs a MAJOR overhaul. And it would appear that Mr. Muller and the RBMRR have no interest in investing the money necessary (which is considerable) in repairing her and getting her back out on the road. For the longest time, she's just been sitting in the engine house, unused and unloved. It breaks my heart.
I once even called the BMRR and asked if they allowed tours of the facility and whether or not it's possible to see 2102. I was told the answer was yes, but they reiterated the fact that there are no plans to restore her to her former glory. I live in Pittsburgh; perhaps someday soon I'll make the drive out to Jim Thorpe, PA and go see my old childhood friend. I've got DVDs of steam trains which include films of 2102 in passenger and coal service, and I've seen the YouTube videos of her. Every time I see that majestic machine powering by and hear that whistle, I get misty-eyed.
If you are talking about the one that pulled the Freedom Train the answer is no, the fire that did her in cause problems in the boiler and a whole new boiler would be needed before she could ever have a fire in her boiler again, she is sitting at the B&O muesum painted in the AFT colors and you can see the damage that the fire cause on her
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