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Concrete Coaling tower Construction

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Concrete Coaling tower Construction
Posted by WilliamKiesel on Monday, November 11, 2013 9:21 AM

Might railroads have built coaling towers exclusively with concrete without rebar? Reason for the question is that the concrete used often had fly ash in the mix. It is my understanding that ash creates a very hard and resistant to deterioration material. Example: Roman structures. Is the ash in the aggregate the reason that coaling towers remain standing? What prompted the question was the 10/13/13 article on TRAINS website by David Kahler of Center for Railroad Photography and Art entitled, "Stalking  Coaling Towers in Maine." It was told to me that years ago the Penn Central decided to demolish a coaling tower on its Conemaugh line in Western, PA. The contractor's plan was to bring it done with explosive charges and the tower would fracture from the fall. The tower fell without fracture causing time consuming extra work and closure of the line for much longer than expected. Were coaling towers built without rebar?

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Posted by jamie92208 on Monday, November 11, 2013 11:55 AM

That also happenned a few times in the UK.  One even had to be pulled over by several diesel locos after explosives had failed to demolish it.  Alll that happenned was that it just sat a little lower but didn't fall over. I don't know the answer to the rebar question though.

Jamie

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Posted by cx500 on Monday, November 11, 2013 3:31 PM

I don't know the answer, but I would guess that if the coaling tower fell without fracturing that it had lots of rebar holding the concrete together.  

Concrete is strong in compression, but not in tension.  Most coaling tower designs that I have seen have portions where tensile strength, and hence rebar, is required.  And in the steam era the railroads often built with strength and endurance being primary goals.

John

 

 

 

 

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Posted by cefinkjr on Monday, November 18, 2013 11:27 PM

I'm not certain but I think the NYC coaling tower at Collinwood Yard (Cleveland) had lots of rebar in it.

A story was told when I worked there (early '70s) that the city had wanted the Central to take the tower down when it was no longer used for fueling locomotives.  According to the story, the railroad's response was, "Sure. We'll take it down, but we can't guarantee the safety of that residential neighborhood just to the north."  The tower was still there the last time I was in Cleveland (being used as a silo for transferring cement to trucks).  Is it still there?

Chuck
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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, December 25, 2013 3:05 PM

cefinkjr

I'm not certain but I think the NYC coaling tower at Collinwood Yard (Cleveland) had lots of rebar in it...The tower was still there the last time I was in Cleveland (being used as a silo for transferring cement to trucks).  Is it still there?

As of a couple of days ago, the 4-bay 500-ton NYC coaling tower in Collinwood yard was in the process of being demolished.  You can see a few pics of the initial demolition at this link.  And, to answer your question, the NYC did use rebar.  You can just see it in the upper right portion of the third pic down.

A sad day for NYC fans and all those that enjoy historic and iconic RR-related structures.

Tom

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Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, December 25, 2013 4:20 PM

I don't know what 'road owns the Collingwood yard, but I suppose the day came when their legal/ risk management people told them that in this litigious day and age it was best if the thing came down.  It used to be in the old days if a railroad didn't need a structure anymore the SOP was to just lock the door and let nature take its course.  Probably not a good idea nowadays.

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Posted by K4sPRR on Wednesday, December 25, 2013 4:40 PM

Firelock76
don't know what 'road owns the Collingwood yard,

The former NYC/PC/Conrail yard is now operated by CSX.  The location of the coaling facility was not of such where any risk was involved.  It was a matter of cost to remove something that was not hindering anything concerning work in the yard, but from what I now understand CSX has some plans for Collinwood and decided to get it out of the way.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, December 25, 2013 4:48 PM

Plans for the yard?  That's probably it. 

There was an old C&O coaling tower still standing when I moved to Richmond, Va. in 1987.  It was in an old C&O, now CSX yard to the south and east of the city.  It was there at least into the '90s and one day it was gone, without fanfare, and like it was never there.  About the only change in the yard I could see was CSX laid more tracks.  Sic transit gloria mundi...

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Posted by cefinkjr on Wednesday, December 25, 2013 11:32 PM

Thanks for the link, tstage.  I notice it's being taken down in stages rather than the cheaper demolition methods using explosives.  That supports the story I heard many years ago that the amount of explosives required would make it a very dangerous undertaking.  The Central built things to last in those days.

Chuck
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Posted by sno-cat on Monday, December 30, 2013 3:29 PM
Small shaped charges can easily cut thru rebar!
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Posted by friend611 on Monday, December 30, 2013 4:56 PM
This makes me think about the concrete coaling towers that still exist on the N&W. These include the towers at Vicker, Va. , Bluefield, WV, and Prichard, WV. These towers had been stripped of their fittings but there appeared to be no attempt to demolish them.
lois
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Posted by Firelock76 on Monday, December 30, 2013 6:13 PM

And I hope there never will be an attempt to demolish them Lois, they're not just old coaling towers now, they're monuments.

I hope they're still there 1,000 years from now for people to wonder at.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, December 30, 2013 9:45 PM

sno-cat
Small shaped charges can easily cut thru rebar!

How much rebar is in the structure? How many courses?  Horizontal & vertical?  How do you locate it in concrete?  If you don't locate it all on the first implosion, how do you handle a partially destroyed unstable structure?

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