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? Any US steam engines designed to comply with the 90K ton (~44 tonner) rule of 1937

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Friday, October 25, 2013 3:20 PM

Pennsy still had a lot of them in the early 60's. They still owned 39 of the 46 in 1963 with many out on lease and still had 11 active that were wired for MU and 8 that did plant switching at Altoona.

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Posted by rfpjohn on Thursday, October 24, 2013 8:05 PM

The Pennsy tried to replace its' fleet of 46 A5s 0-4-0s with 44 tonners on an engine per engine basis. The A5s was no slouch, weighing 131,000 pounds and rated at 30,000lbs tractive effort. Superheated steam at 185lbs provided plenty of oomph for steep street trackage that resembled mini mountain railroading in urban settings. The 44 tonner, at 380 HP, providing 22,000lbs tractive effort was no match. PRR equipped some of them with MU capability to compensate for their puniness, but of course, that gives you 176,000lbs of weight on drivers. Better call a fireman! Most of the fleet was sold to industries or short lines after a short time. The one hold out was leased to the Union Transportation Co., a short line operating north out of Ft Dix, NJ which had been leasing Pennsy's last active steam locomotive, B6sb 5244.

There were plenty of one man steamers in industrial use, as several others have mentioned. As such operations were generally not subject to the national agreements, the 90,000lb rule did not apply. Baldwin built a neat saddle tank 0-4-0T with automatic oil firing in 1936. It was set up for one man operation and was said to use 35% less fuel than a comparable engine in similar service. It was said to consume 4 gallons of  bunker C oil per hour while puttering about. That seems incredibly low, to me. The loco weighed 54.5 tons.

When it came to replacing yard power, the major carriers soon found that a lot more than 45 tons on the rail was needed to get anything but very light work done. Getting rid of the fireman had to wait for the agreements to change.

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Posted by DSO17 on Thursday, October 24, 2013 6:31 PM

     The Brooklyn Eastern District Terminal in New York used oil-burning steam engines that were set up for one man operation. When they retired steam and went to diesels they had to have firemen on the diesels.

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 24, 2013 11:08 AM

Cool I rode a narrow gage steamer in Ga. on a tourist site that there was only room in cab for 1 person. they had both a fireman and engineer. many private engines that were oil fired were routinlly operated with only one crew man on industrlial lines. all non flame steamers were always one operator only.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, October 24, 2013 6:58 AM

And the 44 ton diesels that worked the industries on Pratt Street in Baltimore could handle 8 empties from the waterfront (Now Harborplace) to the crews headquarters at Pratt & Poppelton Streets (B&O Museum).  More than 8 cars they had to 'double the hill'.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by PNWRMNM on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 5:28 PM

I think you need to put yourself in the context of 1937. Steam locomotives needed a fireman and always had. Diesel locos did not need a fireman, therefore an agreement covering ALL locomotives meant firemen were required on both diesels and electrics over 90,000#, which virtually all were.

I strongly doubt anyone tried a 44 ton steamer for one man operation. To cite one example, the last class of Great Northern 0-6-0 switchers, built in 1903, weighed 147,000#. 0-4-0 switchers were built in the 1880's but it is hard to imagine any useful work for them after 1937, except of course the B&O's on the Baltimore waterfront.

Mac

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Posted by chutton01 on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 4:53 PM

PNWRMNM
IIRC the agreement was for diesel locomotives only.


See, I originallly thought so too, but I couldn't find anything confirming it was diesel only

Instead, I found things like this - note ALL is emphensized (although that may just be a whim of the content creator):

1934-1938: BLF&E fights for mechanical stokers, power reverse gears and Railroad Retirement Act. The latter is signed into law by President Franklin D. Roosevelt on June 27, 1934. BLF&E-carrier agreement of February 28, 1937, provides for a fireman on ALL locomotives over 90,000 pounds. Brotherhood also has power reverse gear and stoker laws effected in 1937.

UTU History

Also, note the mention of automatic stokers - I was thinking of those, and also oil-burners like the SP had, for use in 44ton compliant Steam switchers (if any were purpose made).

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Posted by PNWRMNM on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 4:03 PM

IIRC the agreement was for diesel locomotives only.

Mac

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Posted by timz on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 3:01 PM

Did anyone build a steam locomotive for US RRs that was intended to run with an engineer and no fireman? I'll bet not -- except maybe for a fireless.

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? Any US steam engines designed to comply with the 90K ton (~44 tonner) rule of 1937
Posted by chutton01 on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 2:21 PM

As is probably well known, in 1937 (for American railroads), a 90,000 lb rule was adopted - any locomotive above that weight required a fireman in addition to the engineer, anything below that could use 1 man operation.  The most famous outcome (IMO) of this rule was the GE 44 tonner, which is pretty cool, and served many railroads well. The rule itself I believed lasted till 1963.

Now, 1937 is torwards the end of the US reign of steam locomotives as the primary railroad motive power, and WWII did do a number on freezing locomotive design, but I am wondering if any firms built (or, even better, marketed) a steam engine specifically to take advantage of this rule, in the same fashion that firms did with diesel locomotives (e.g. the aforementioned GE 44 tonner)?

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