The following video shows a typical train of my childhood days in the late 1950´s. Loco is a DB class 38.1 ex Prussian P8 Tenwheeler, built from 1906 to 1922. Though not well balanced, it proved to be a really successful design, with over 3,800 locos built, outlasting all of its intended successors by decades. Actually, a DB class 38.1 was among the last steam locos taken out of service at the end of the steam days on German rails in 1977.
Enjoy!
watch?feature=playerdetailpage&v=3bK6E9a2pI
Wow! Great video of a grand old locomotive and some beautiful countryside as well. I'm not sure what you meant when you said the engine was "not well balanced", she can sure go like a bat out of hell! One thing though, at about the twelve minute mark I heard someone playing "Give Me Your Higher Love" in the background. Considering the subject matter I think "Preussens Gloria" might have been more appropriate!
You're lucky. Except for one brief moment the trains of my childhood were diesels.
Firelock76,
take a look at the following drawing, which reveals some of the shortcomings:
It was finally her ruggedness and low cost which made her successful, in spite of bad steaming capability.
Took a look at the drawing and now, ah, I see. Still, that engine runs so well it's hard to believe it had all those shortcomings. And the fireman crewing the engine in the video obviously knew his business, except for starting the only exhaust I could see was white condensing steam.
There's a lot to be said for ruggedness, I'd rather have something rugged and rough that can do the job than something so fine-tuned and finely crafted it's finicky and temperamental.
Speaking of rough rides, have you seen the "Live (?) Steam" thread under "General Discussion"? Just watching it will have you looking for a bottle of aspirin!
... just did! Reminds me of Ralph Nader´s comment: Unsafe at any speed!
I just love those suicidal chicken!
I'll tell you what, Ulrich, if I ever go overseas for a steam train ride I'm going to Germany! That German trackage and roadbed beats the Chinese in all respects. No bouncing or bobbling with that Prussian Ten Wheeler, just top-quality construction, which is what us Yanks always expect from the Germans.
Wayne
Steam?
Steam!!!
watch?feature=playerdetailpage&v=bpps4u2ledU
Oh wow. You know, back in the old days the engine crews would have had some serious explaining to do on account of all that smoke. Sure looks cool, though, like both locomotives have tornados riding on top!
Wayne,
it may be a lousy explanation, but it was filmed on a cold morning in late fall and it was a hillside departure on a fairly steep grade, requiring full throttle. The plume is not all black, so at least the firemen knew their job.
Or at least they were giving it their best shot. It DOES make for some great photography at any rate, what Lucius Beebe used to call the "Burning of Rome" smoke effect.
Looks like mostly steam to me. Two engines working flat out on freight service on a grade. I don't care what comes out the stack! It's a really cool video! Vielen dank!
Leafing though some really old documents, I found a picture I have taken in my adolescent days:
It shows a DB class 41 oil-fired Mikado heading a string of empties towards Munster,. The shot was taken around Easter 1972, shortly before the line was electrified and the steamers were scrapped. Note the wires in front of the track. They ran to a signal box close by. The guard "signaled" each train movement to me, while I was waiting for the trains. Fond memories of times gone by!
Great picture, Ulrich! wish there was some of that around when I was a teenager. One thing surprises me, the engine's oil fired. I would have thought that with all the indiginous coal in Germany they'd coal fire it. Then again, oil as a fuel is easier to handle, although it must have been more expensive than coal.
before the first oil crunch in 1973/74, oil was much cheaper than German coal, especially the low grade Bunker C oil used in firing the steamers. That, however changed dramatically the following year.
On that particular rail fan trip, I was lucky to be able to hitch a cab ride. That was some experience for a 16 year old! The fireman had a lot less to do on those oil-fired rigs.The engineer even let me handle the throttle for a while!
Oil cheaper than coal? That IS surprising, although maybe I shouldn't be. Prior to the first oil crunch in 1973 (which some believe had as much to do with Richard Nixon's downfall as 'Watergate' did. American presidents tend to get the blame for things they're not responsible for, just like they tend to get credit for things they're not responsible for either) the average price of gasoline here in the US was around 23 cents a gallon, at some places 21 cents if you knew where to look. If there was a "gas war" between two competing gas stations it could go as little as 19 cents. Diesel fuel was even less.
AND you got a cab ride too! You're turning me green with envy! And some throttle time too! What a lucky kid!
I forgot to mention that the price for German coal was kept high to subsidize mining. Imports were limited, so no cheap Chinese coal in those days.
How does $ 8.25 for a gallon of gas sound to you? That´s what I am paying here right now ...
$8.25 a gallon? Jesus, Mary and Joseph! I wonder though, how much of that cost is due to fuel taxes, as as opposed to legitimate retail cost?
Here in the US, in the state of Virginia anyway, it was $3.44 a gallon at the last gas station I passed this morning. That's up from $3.22 a week ago.
Taxes amount to 70 % of the price ...
I have reduced driving to the absolute minimum, taking the train is often a lot cheaper!
So, minus that 70% gasolene would cost you about $2.50 a gallon. I wonder, are the fuel taxes that high to discourage driving and pressure people into taking public transportation? The idea's been kicked around here in the US for a number of years in certain quarters but it would be political suicide for anyone who tried it.
Firelock76 Prior to the first oil crunch in 1973 (which some believe had as much to do with Richard Nixon's downfall as 'Watergate' did. American presidents tend to get the blame for things they're not responsible for, just like they tend to get credit for things they're not responsible for either) the average price of gasoline here in the US was around 23 cents a gallon, at some places 21 cents if you knew where to look.
Prior to the first oil crunch in 1973 (which some believe had as much to do with Richard Nixon's downfall as 'Watergate' did. American presidents tend to get the blame for things they're not responsible for, just like they tend to get credit for things they're not responsible for either) the average price of gasoline here in the US was around 23 cents a gallon, at some places 21 cents if you knew where to look.
The post 1973 war oil crunch wasn't the only thing about the war that had a negative impact on Nixon - the "Saturday night massacre" took place when things were really heating up and the Nixon administration, much to their credit, were keeping their mouths shut about how bad things were getting (although SAC going on alert was public).
One other railroad related Nixon anecdote was that his administration was planning to intervene in the Penn Central bankruptcy but dropped the efforts when PC hired Nixon's old law firm.
Getting a bit closer to the original thread topic, running Espee's 4449 on oil for the American Freedom Train was apparently cheaper than running the other locomotive on coal.
- Erik
It was cheaper to run the 4449 on oil than the other locomotive on coal? Wow, that surprises me too! Then again, Earl Gil ran his Morris County Central steamers on waste oil he got free from gas stations and auto repair shops. Definately cheaper than coal!
Two years ago i saw a restored BR 38 (P8) at the rail museum in Heilbronn. Great-looking engine restored to KPEV livery.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm Two years ago i saw a restored BR 38 (P8) at the rail museum in Heilbronn. Great-looking engine restored to KPEV livery.
Was it this one?
It is not a real KPEV P8, but one built following the design, exported to Romania in 1922. It was bought back quite a few years ago and refitted to be closer to the original design. In 1922, the then newly founded Deutsche Reichsbahn still received a number of locos which had been ordered by the various state railways in Germany. They usually had the livery as ordered, but received the new DR number. The above loco nicely represents what could have been.
Firelock76 So, minus that 70% gasolene would cost you about $2.50 a gallon. I wonder, are the fuel taxes that high to discourage driving and pressure people into taking public transportation? The idea's been kicked around here in the US for a number of years in certain quarters but it would be political suicide for anyone who tried it.
In Germany, mineral oil tax is $ 3.32 per gallon and sales tax adds another $ 1.32, leaving the "bare" price for gas at $ 3.61, which is close to what you are paying. Of course, there are some distortions due to exchange rate variations.
Mineral oil tax was originally established as a means of financing highway and "Autobahn" construction and maintenance, but has long been absorbed into the general budget.
erikemOne other railroad related Nixon anecdote was that his administration was planning to intervene in the Penn Central bankruptcy but dropped the efforts when PC hired Nixon's old law firm.
But it was really the Nixon Administration that gave us Amtrak.
Firelock76$8.25 a gallon?
It is true that we Americans share a religious belief that we should have cheap gas. In Europe they by gay by the liter. There gas taxes have always been a lot higher than our have. A lot lot higher.
John
John, I don't think it's a religious belief on our part that we should have cheap gas, far from it. It's that we don't want to spend one cent more for it than we have to, and don't want the prices raised artificially by confiscatory taxes like the Germans or people in other countries have to deal with. IF all those taxes were going to road improvements I could understand it even if I wouldn't like it. As Sir Madog says it's going into general revenue for the politicians to play with.
At any rate, there are oil producing countries that pay a lot less at the pump than we do. Can't give you figures, but I read a year or so gasolene sells for around 25 cents a gallon in the Middle East.
I'm more than willing to stand corrected if that isn't so.
I guess we've gotta disagree sometimes. In my (not very) humble opinion, Americans have a common religious belief in cheap gas.
The gas taxes we pay fall far short of covering the costs of our streets, avenues, roads and highways. First of all, most roads are local and are paid for with property tax that is unrelated to road use. Last September Joe Boardman testified before then House Transportation Committee Chairman John Mica (who proposed a "Holy Jihad" against Amtrak) that in the 3 prior years over $50 billion was appropriated from the general fund for highway repair because motor fuel taxes fell so far short. $50 billion is more than the Federal Government has spent on Amtrak in all of the years Amtrak has existed.
It it true that a big part of what we in the US pay for gas is taxes although in Europe the taxes are even higher. I can remember in the 70's paying 30¢ a gallon for gas and even in the early 2000's paying a little over $1 a gallon. I'm sure you can remember those prices too.
If I recall correctly you live in New Jersey as I do. I hope you don't have to commute on any of our toll roads and getting hit with that tax.
Best regards despite all that, John
Sir MadogWas it this one?
Correct.
http://www.eisenbahnmuseum-heilbronn.de/html/geschichtebr38.html
John, I'm sure this slipped your mind, but I don't live in New Jersey anymore, Lady Firestorm and I moved to Virginia in 1987. I still read the "Bergen Evening Record" and the "Star Ledger" on line because I'm still interested in what's going on up there, we do have friends and family still living in North Jersey. Don't know why I still care, but I do. I guess you can take the boy out of Jersey but...
And oh dear God how I miss the diners, hot dog and burger places, the pizzarias, the bakeries, the Palisades, I could go on and on. Nothing wrong AT ALL with Virginia, it's a good place to live, but it would be perfect if it only had the above!
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