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Future of CP Rail 4-8-4 #3100?

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  • Member since
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Posted by selector on Saturday, December 10, 2011 11:13 AM

I'm just going by what was imparted to the viewers in the DVD dealing with the restoration of 2816.  The engine was stripped down to the frame, and all the major components had to be assessed, shipped when practicable/necessary, restored and/or tested, then shipped for reassembly.  Some just a few km, some hundreds.   The wheel-sets for 2816 were shipped all the way to Tennessee.  The driver sets are 8 tons each, and there were three.  That costs.

In 2816's case, much of the cab had to be rebuilt.....fabricated.   All the other mechanicals, pumps, turbo, lubricators, rods, pins, bushings, slides, wedges, it all had to be restored for use, then installed and adjusted.   That takes cash...lots of it.  Once it is back together and it passes pressure testing and an intro run, it has to be made pretty with all the lagging and sheeting.  Then painted.

And that was just erecting it again.  From there on, it becomes a unit needing manning and operating costs.  While a boiler in a ship might be much larger, it is in something that isn't also part of the restoration.  I'll accept your $200K figure for that job, but it isn't a locomotive.

It just took $5M to partially restore/rebuild the Kinsol Trestle about two hours south of where I live.  It is projected to cost about $2M next major overhaul of the BC Heritage Railway's Royal Hudson 2860. 

http://www.wcra.org/hudson/story.htm 

Crandell

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Posted by Thomas 9011 on Saturday, December 10, 2011 2:17 AM

I haven't heard any news on the 3100 if you have any articles it would be interesting to read them.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear if they were going to restore the 3100. I know many railroads are having record breaking profits this year and last year and must have a nice bundle of cash to throw at charities and other projects. So if they are going to do something like this, then now would probably be the time to do it. Perhaps they are looking for a replacement locomotive when the 2816 goes into overhaul.

I do know that the majority of the boiler work for the 2816 was done by Doyle McCormick and his crew down in Portland,Oregon. The rest of the work was done in the roundhouse of the former Royal hudson in Vancouver,BC when the steam program was still up and running by BC rail.

Neither of those are options anymore as the Portland roundhouse is set to be demolished and the BC rail steam program is history. That doesn't mean that there isn't options though. There is many contractors and museums now doing steam locomotive restoration.

As far as a tender. There is lots of tenders in museums that are sitting static. There are more for sale by companies that sell locomotives and cars. I know the Mount rainier railroad has a very large CN 6 axle tender sitting on a siding rusting.

I used to overhaul locomotives both steam and diesel and I find it extremely hard to believe any locomotive would cost several million dollars to restore. For a few million you could probably give the blue prints to the foundry , forge shop, and machinist and build that locomotive from the ground up brand new.

I also used to work in the shipyards in Seattle on those huge merchant ships that were driven by steam turbines. You could fit at least six locomotives in just one of their boilers. When it came time to overhaul their boilers it sure didn't take a million (more like 200,000).

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Posted by Isambard on Friday, December 9, 2011 7:12 PM

CPR 3100 is safely tucked away in the National Science and Technology Museum in Ottawa, across the aisle from CNR 4100, but I understand 3101 is still outside at IPSCO in deteriorated condition, perhaps in worse condition than 2816 when the CP recovered from the US.. What's the current story about 3101 and are there any current photos of it available on line?  

Isambard

Grizzly Northern history, Tales from the Grizzly and news on line at  isambard5935.blogspot.com 

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Posted by selector on Thursday, October 27, 2011 9:08 AM

Robert, I would dearly love to see any steamer restored and placed into excursion service.  I would welcome any interest brought by the public, and surely the IMAX movie will help.  I just don't see it being very likely.  I suppose pessimism is holding me back.  Even so, from a pragmatic standpoint, such a restoration would cost several millions of dollars, and then would come the operating costs later on.  If there is a will to take this on, and the Big Wigs 'n shareholders support it, CP may just do it.  But......I am not holding my breath.

Crandell

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Posted by ONRFan89 on Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:41 AM

Crandell, With the CPR having a new program in the I-max theaters futuring the 2816 it is more than possible that people could ask for a renaissance of Canadian Pacific steam? It maybe a could time to  capitalize on the idea of restoring the 4-8-4? Every railroad should have at least one fantastic 4-8-4 to ride and watch trackside!

 

I guess the CP 4-8-4 at Ispco is the 3101? Not the 3100. If so then it is the 3101 I would like to see restored to service.  I hate to see such a machine scrapped because of the fact that there is only 2 in existance.

Robert

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Posted by selector on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 4:46 PM

I would have to assume that there is a reasonable business case for such a project for CP to want to do it.  That would run from the Big Fella saying he wants another steamer running for the eastern townships to someone with deep pockets getting CP to agree to be partners for a while to test the waters and ending at a groundswell of public support and initiative such that CP would be foolish not to capitalize on the public's newfound enthusiasm for ancient CPR steam.

All-in-all, I'd say none of those is very likely.  Times are tough, and probably toughening as we read.

Crandell

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 10:03 AM

The CP 3100's were not system locomotives in the sense that the Hudsons and Royal Hudsons were system locomotives.   They were built specifically for the heavy Montreal-Toronto overnighters and spent virtually their entire careers in that service.  I would be skeptical of any proposal to rebuild one of them for service.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Future of CP Rail 4-8-4 #3100?
Posted by ONRFan89 on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 4:04 AM

GoodDay All! I am interested in knowing what the future of the 4-8-4 3100 holds? Is there any fact to the rumors about the CP showing interest in rebuilding the locomotive for use in the steam program? Or is the locomotive headed for the torch? I remember the article posted here from 2007 http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,1538545 that suggest the two CP 4-8-4 locomotives suffer from some design flaw? If this is the case then it is more than possible that the flaws could be removed during the rebuild process not unlike what Ross Rowland did with the C&O 614 when it was restored for the Chessie Express. The CP Rail #3100 would make an impressive site storming the grades in and around Banff for sure. The locomotive is capaible of generating enough TE to handle a train unassisted but would be very impressive doubleheaded with the 2816,

Now just for the heck of it. Where could CP find another suitable water canteen for use with the 4-8-4 if it was restored? The 2816 water canteen was from a D&H Challenger and was stored in the yard at Binghamton NY. So what other suitably large tenders preferably something CP or CN are available for water service?

Robert

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