there is an 0-4-4T Forney from the Lake street elevated line that operated in Chicago prior to electrification at the Museum of Transportation in St Louis Mo.
Note there are the remains of three former NYC elevated 0-4-4Ts on the Alaska tundra near Nome, last used by the short-lived Council City & Solomon River Railroad Co..
http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=1552
http://www.railsnorth.com/nometrain.html
I believe the remains (probably incomplete) this abandoned engine in Louisiana may be a NY Elevated engine also, though it could be from Chicago. The restored elevated locomotive at MOT St. Louis is from Chicago.
http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=22399
Hey, the only silly question is the one you're afraid to ask!
elevatedrr Is anyone out there interested in the steam railway ( Forney locomotives) that ran above the streets of NYC in the latter half of the 19th century and was the forerunner to the IRT subway?
Is anyone out there interested in the steam railway ( Forney locomotives) that ran above the streets of NYC in the latter half of the 19th century and was the forerunner to the IRT subway?
Isn't this kind of a silly question on this forum? I mean, I could probably ask, "Is anyone out there interested in ______________" (fill in the blanks with anything to do with railroads) and get at least one positive response. We're all a little nuts that way.
ChuckAllen, TX
[quote user="daveklepper"]
A lot of scrap steel was sold by the USA to Japan before WWII. No one had any proof as far as I know that it was specifically 6th Avenuye elevated (demolished 1938) amd the 9th and 2md Avenue elevated (1940-1941) steel that went to Japan, but it certainly was possible. As far as I know the practice of selling scrap steel to Japan continued until Pearl Harbor. At the time of Pearl Harbor, there were Japanese Government representatives in Washington negotiating on the "China-Burma Question," and so it was a "sneak attack" But not the responsibility of today's Japanese.
To Dave K: Thanks for the response! Isn't it interesting how the World War Two era is becoming legend even as we speak, much like the Civil War era? Several years ago I read Marine Major Devareaux's account of the battle of Wake Island. He met Japanese Envoy Kurusu when Kurusu's PanAm Clipper stopped in Wake Island on the way to the west coast. Devareaux got the impression that Kurusu had no idea of the impending attack on Pearl Harbor, Kurusu spoke excellent English and the Major said he seemed very sincere about preventing a war between Japan and the US.
Hello Mr. Dave! Listen, you're a New York City boy, did you ever hear the story of how one of the New York elevateds was cut up for scrap, the scrap was sold to the Japanese, who then turned it into the munitions they dropped on Pearl Harbor? I grew up in northern New Jersey and heard that story almost all my life. I always wondered if it was true or just a "local legend". Seems like everyone I knew who lived through the World War Two era knew that story.
Some information on the operation of these locomotives and one the various open-platform gate-equipped coaches they pulled has been printed in recent New York Division Electric Rarilroaders Association Bulletins, spcifically concerned with the Ninth Avenue Elelvated in Manhattan and the Fulton Street Elevated in Brooklyn. Since under Manhattan Elevated Railroad the 9th Avenue line was operated in conjunction with the 6th, 3rd, and 2nd Avenue elevateds, the rolling stock of the entire system is covered; similarly for Brooklyn-United, then Brooklyn Rapid Transit, for Fulton Street in conjunction with the Myrtle Avenue, Lexington Avenue (Bklyn), Broadway (Bklyn), 5th Avenue (Bklyn), West End, Culver, Sea Beach, and Brighton lines. Contact the website via the Electric Raailroaders' Associoation website. My usual way of doing so, even though I am a member, is to pull up
www.lrta.org
and go to links, clubs, USA, Electric Railroaders' Association
The division will be happy to sell and mail the particular issues. Some b&w photos are included.
There is actually quite a bit of information on the Forney type locomotives available on Google Books.
While running on the elevated railroads these locomotives were perhaps the best maintained passenger engines in the United States. Anything that went wrong was going to happen fifty feet above the street level so the companies did their best to make sure nothing did go wrong.
This meant that the locomotives maintained their resale value and were highly prized by contractors, short lines, and industrial railways.
Another famous Forney ran on the Morristown and Erie in New Jersey.
Kevin Olsen
Title Morristown and Erie Railroad: people, paper, and profitsAuthors Thomas Townsend Taber, Railroadians of AmericaPublisher Railroadians of America, 1967Original from the University of MichiganDigitized Nov 28, 2006Length 67 pages
Some or these locos worked the logging roads pf western Pa. Mostly uised for switching around the mills and chemical plants and tannerys as they were too light for work in the woods. Some info and pictures can be found in Thomas Tabers series on logging railroads in Pa.
Tim
For some old action footage of those elevated railroad steam engines in action try and find a copy of Transit Gloria Mundi's "Trolleys-- The Cars That Built Our Citys". A very enjoyable video.
A number of these locomotives also ended up on logging operations across the Southeastern US. They were easy on the light track, and most importantly they were cheap. A number of them can be tracked through the listings in Locomotives of Southern Iron & Equipment Company by Thomas Lawson, Jr. (Cabbage Stack Publishing, 2008). Southern Iron & Equipment was a used locomotive dealer that handled all sorts of re-sale steam locomotives.
Bill
I know that a few of the Forneys ended up in northern Minnesota working on logging railroads. Franklin King's book on Minnesota logging railroads has a picture of one in it.
Getting information on the steam-powered Els and L's of the 19th century is going to be tough since what's out there is pretty sketchy. Even an organization like CERA, which is thorough on its research for its Bulletins, had a lot of holes in the data for the steam power of the Lake Street Elevated RR and the South Side Rapid Transit.
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