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Steam locomotive rail cleaning

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Posted by Spinner5711 on Friday, August 19, 2011 11:49 AM

Rail washers (desanders0 are a required piece of equipment on anything fitted with sanders in NSW Australia, be it steam, diesel or electric.  If the locomotive does not have desanding equipment, then its sanding gear is required to be made inoperable.

The reason for this, in NSW, is to clean the railhead of any build up of sand which might insulate the train from the track circuits.  It came into being as a direct result of the Cowan Bank accident of 1991.

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Posted by NRdriver on Monday, August 15, 2011 5:14 PM

As a side note to this, most diesel locos in Australia have sand removal nozzles fitted.

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Posted by Thomas 9011 on Thursday, August 11, 2011 3:17 AM

Someone was asking if the crushed sand causes more resistance in pulling a train. Although it is a small amount on the rails it crushes and compacts to the point where the wheels of the first 10 or so cars are riding on crushed sand which is very bumpy. This would be like comparing a car riding on a dirt road Vs asphalt. It causes more resistance which makes it harder to move. Nothing to worry about on a grand scale but something to consider.

Probably the trains that would most be effected by this would be slow moving trains with lots of locomotives. If you have 8 locomotives all dropping sand on the rails you would have quite a bit to to run over and pulverize before the wheels were riding on the shiny rails. If you go to grade crossings on dirt roads often times after a train passes all you will see is compacted dirt on the rails. As heavy as that train is it still rode on top of that dirt on the rail through the crossing and never even made metal to metal contact with the rail.

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Posted by JimValle on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 4:06 PM

William Price made many movies in the 1950's depicting B&O locomotives pulling and pushing heavy freight trains in the hills around Cumberland, MD.  In some of them the engines can be seen operating their rail washers.  What you actually see is a small feather of steam jetting out of a pipe just behind the rear drivers of the "Big Sixes" as they work upgrade on Sand Patch or Cranberry or Seventeen Mile Grade.  It's great stuff harking back to a lost and lamented era.

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Posted by JayPotter on Saturday, August 6, 2011 5:13 AM

CSXT began testing rail cleaners (which direct high-pressure air onto the rails in front of sanding nozzles) in 2005.  There have been various estimates of how much they increase adhesion; however they increase it enough that all of CSXT's high-tractive-effort locomotives are equipped with them.

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Posted by pajrr on Saturday, August 6, 2011 3:52 AM

[quote user="Paul of Covington"]

   Just curious:  Does anyone know if rail cleaning was ever tried with diesels, say with compressed air maybe?

To answer your question, I don't think that rail cleaning is really needed with diesels. One must remember in steam vs. diesel is that steam gets more powerful the faster it goes. Diesels generate more power the slower they go. I'm sure that if the wheel drag slows the train down, the tractive effort of a diesel increases enough to compensate. While diesels can slip (although modern diesels slip very rarely if at all), a steam loco slipping beats the heck out of rail and machinery. These days there may not be as much rail wear as in steam days.

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Posted by JamesP on Wednesday, August 3, 2011 12:57 PM

Yes it is... mine is a 2nd printing from 2001 of the "Centennial Edition."  The paragraph I quoted is on page 69 of my book.  Very interesting reading!

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Posted by doghouse on Wednesday, August 3, 2011 2:57 AM

James P

Is that particular book you reference about the RR from Alamagordo the Cloudcroft, NM?

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Posted by JamesP on Tuesday, August 2, 2011 11:26 PM

OK, I found this reference to the rail washer in one of my books, and it is somewhat different than what I remembered.  The book is "The Cloud-Climbing Railroad" by Dorothy Jensen Neal.  This is an excerpt from the book - not my intent to infringe on the copyright, just a clarification of the details of the rail-washer:

"Engineer Jim Riddle invented the rail washer, used to keep the tracks clean.  A pipe connected to the boiler carried water in front of the pony trucks.  When valves were opened, this hot water wet the track.  A stream of sand was them blown onto the track.  If necessary, a second stream of water behind the engine washed off the sand, lubricating the rail so the cars would not derail.  When the company would not buy his invention, Riddle removed it.  Proof of its value appeared daily and soon the company bought the patent for $1500.  By that time, another engineer, F.M. Delap, had perfected the same invention.  Ridle received the franchise for the western part of the country only, while the other inventor reaped benefits east of the Mississippi River and the honor of having the invention named the DeLap Rail Washer."

So from this passage, it appears that the rail washer really just helped the sand stick to the wet rail and then washed it off after the engine passed.  I seem to remember another reference to a rail washer in my books, I'll keep looking and see if I can find it.

 - James

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Posted by dhorn@rmli.us on Tuesday, August 2, 2011 9:35 PM

This is a very interesting discussion, but, one thing has been totally overlooked. That is, cleaning switch frogs, points and auto crossing guard rails. The BEDT ( Brookly Eastern District Terminal) railroad used a pipe in front and back of the drivers on their switchers (no pilot or trailing trucks) to clear the accumulated ice and snow from these locations. Their railroad was located on the shores of the East River and also did street running in NYC. Thus a lot of ice in the auto crossings and in the switch frogs. A close look at BEDT #16 at our museum (www.rmli.org) shows these pipes.

Dick Horn

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Posted by PJago on Monday, August 1, 2011 7:41 PM

 

WRT steam locomotive rail cleaning, ex-Canadian Pacific G-5a Pacific No. 1201, belonging to the Canada Museum of Science and Technology, was equipped with "rail washers" that were mounted ahead of the leading truck on its tender.  The "rail washers" were installed when the locomotive was restored to operating service in the early 1970s.  The "rail washers" received water by opening the injector overflow valve.  The 1201 was restored for excursion service between the Museum in Ottawa, Ontario, and the community of Wakefield, Quebec, located at mile 20 of Canadian Pacific's Maniwaki Subdivision.  The Maniwaki Subdivision, like many resource-based branch lines, was built following the path of least resistance and was noted for several steep grades and numerous tight curves.  The washers were intended to perform two functions - knock off sand if it was required to provide traction for the locomotive and to eliminate/reduce the wheel squealing noise as 1201 and her train of heavy weight coaches went through the many curves of the Maniwaki Subdivision.  1201's last trip up the pike was in September of 1985 and she was last under steam in October of 1990.  The Maniwaki Sub. was abandoned in 1985 but the first 20-miles re-emerged as the Hull, Chelsea and Wakefield Railway, a tourist operation featuring ex-Swedish National Railways 2-8-0 No. 909, beginning in 1992, carrying roughly 50,000 passengers a year.  Following a major storm on June 23, 2011 that caused several serious washouts, operations on the HCW have been suspended for the 2011 season.

It should be noted that some of the operating crews were not too keen on 1201's rail washers.  They were not particularly fond of dumping good tender water on the ground given that is purpose was to respond to the locomotive's needs. Not to worry, however, 1201's tender could hold 8,000 gallons (Imperial), more than enough to make the trip and with ample water to spare.

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Monday, August 1, 2011 2:21 PM

   Just curious:  Does anyone know if rail cleaning was ever tried with diesels, say with compressed air maybe?

_____________ 

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Monday, August 1, 2011 11:54 AM

Leaving the sand on the rail also produced more wear on the rail and wheels of the trailing cars.

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

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Posted by co2716ehp on Sunday, July 31, 2011 9:59 PM

Had them on 1702 on the Great Smoky Mountain. Lots of tight curves. Don't know if it really helped not having to drag the cars through the sand, but we thought it did.

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Posted by erikem on Sunday, July 31, 2011 9:04 PM

Burgard540

To clarify, the only rail washer's that I'm familiar with are the ones used for sand removal placed behind the driving wheels.   I am curious as to their benefit, ie how much was the rolling resistance reduced for the rolling stock with clean rails vs just leaving the sand on.  Intuitively, I would guess most of the sand would only really affect the first five rail cars since it would be crushed & knocked off the rail by all the wheels. 

Anyone know of actual test data being performed?  From an economic point of view, they had to have a benefit otherwise what was the point of paying for and maintaining the device.  Furthermore, I would assume that washing the rails of sand would only really be beneficial on systems with steep grades because the resistance due to gravity is dominate.  Each 1% grade produces 20 lbs per ton of car weight in resistance, for example 4500 gross tons of train on a 1.5% grade requires 135,000 lbs of tractive effort just to overcome gravity.  Any reduction in total train rolling resistance would help.

I wonder if the benefit was more in regards to rail and wheel wear, having a bunch of wheels traveling over sand sounds like a good way to wear down both wheels and rail.

- Erik

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Posted by pajrr on Sunday, July 31, 2011 7:37 AM

Hi, I have a video showing NKP 765 running through New River Gorge. Engineer Rich Melvin uses the rail washers during the trip and does indeed confirm that it is used to remove sand from the rails once the loco passes over it. It reduces the friction from the rest of the train. As for washing rails for leaf/dirt removal, here in NJ, NJ Transit has the "Aqua Train" which is a high pressure power washer to remove residue from the rails. This usually operates during off peak hours so that commuter trains, especially MU cars, can stop at stations and climb grades properly. The "Aqua Train" is not self propelled. It is pushed by diesels. Metro-North also uses a similar device. I have been on trains that hit wet leaves at stations. One train I was on slid 7 car lengths past the platform and had to back up to platfform the cars. The "Aqua Train" eliminates problems like this.

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Posted by Burgard540 on Sunday, July 31, 2011 6:23 AM

To clarify, the only rail washer's that I'm familiar with are the ones used for sand removal placed behind the driving wheels.   I am curious as to their benefit, ie how much was the rolling resistance reduced for the rolling stock with clean rails vs just leaving the sand on.  Intuitively, I would guess most of the sand would only really affect the first five rail cars since it would be crushed & knocked off the rail by all the wheels. 

Anyone know of actual test data being performed?  From an economic point of view, they had to have a benefit otherwise what was the point of paying for and maintaining the device.  Furthermore, I would assume that washing the rails of sand would only really be beneficial on systems with steep grades because the resistance due to gravity is dominate.  Each 1% grade produces 20 lbs per ton of car weight in resistance, for example 4500 gross tons of train on a 1.5% grade requires 135,000 lbs of tractive effort just to overcome gravity.  Any reduction in total train rolling resistance would help.

Regarding the use of steam to clean rails ahead of the drivers, someone else would have to provide some information.

 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, July 30, 2011 6:25 PM

Interesting discussion on rail cleaning, especially on traction sand removal.  My question is, would removing the sand from the rails after the locomotive has passed really have made all that much of a difference to to rolling resistance of the rest of the consist?  Would leaving it on the rails have made that much of a difference?  It seems to me the sand would have only been applied briefly to aid starting or to aid traction on grades.  In the general scheme of things there wouldn't have been a "carpet" of it for any great length.

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 30, 2011 4:00 PM

So, according to what has been described, the rail washers existed in two different types of application.  One washed ahead of the engine to remove leaves, oil, etc., so those contaminants did not degrade traction; and the other washed behind the drivers to remove the traction sand so that it did not produce rolling resistance to the rolling stock of the train.  I wonder if any locomotives were set up with both systems.

 

I would imagine that washing ahead of the locomotive would not necessarily replace the use of sand, although it might in certain circumstances.  I can also imagine that removing the sand behind the drivers by the use of high pressure steam might accentuate the cloud of swirling grit that the could have an abrasive effect on the running gear of the following cars of the train.   

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Posted by JamesP on Saturday, July 30, 2011 1:02 PM

I'll second that they did exist.  I can't find it right now, but I remember reading in one of my railroad books about a person who patented such a device - the story was that another mechanic on a different railroad submitted a patent application at the same time, and the patent rights were split east and west.  How true that is on the patent, I can't be sure - hopefully I can find the proper reference to post here sometime this week.  At any rate, the idea was that the jet of steam washed foreign debris off the railhead, which then had almost as much traction as dry rail - or at least more than rail contaminated by oil, grease, tannic acid from leaves, grasshoppers, et al.

This begs the question of how well it worked.  I think the fact that we are all more familiar with sanders than rail washers answers that question.  I strongly suspect that even though a steam-cleaned rail might provide more traction than a contaminated rail, a lightly sanded rail still provides even more traction than the steam-cleaned rail.  But that is just my guess.

One other note, any student of shay locomotives knows about the evolving problems that Lima had with the front wheelset climbing the rail on curves when pulling hard.  In additon to other changes (notably changes in the "phasing" of the driveshafts & universal joints), they also added pipes to drip water in front of the first wheelset.  Although this is similar to the steam-cleaning arrangement, its purpose was to drip water to lubricate the flange of the first wheelset to deter it from climbing the rail under the aforementioned circumstances, it was not intended to be a rail-washer for traction enhancement.

 - James

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Posted by Burgard540 on Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:17 AM

Yes they did exist.  The theory being that removing the sand from the rail would reduce rolling friction for the rest of the train.  To my knowledge this reason is what they were used for.  Whether rail washers were also used to clean environmental rail fouling (dirt, oil, leaves, etc), not sure, however this would necessitate placing the washer in front of the drivers.

From the set of UP engineering drawings both series of the Big Boy locomotives were built with them.  Initially the washers consisted of a two nozzles (flattened ends of 1/2" pipe to form a orifice ~1/8" x 1.5") placed behind the last driving wheels 2" above and perpendicular to the rails.  They were fed saturated steam from the steam turrets, 300psi.

Later in 1954 the layout was changed with the nozzles placed behind the last wheels of the trailing truck.  Nozzles were of the same design, however they were angled to the rail at about 30 degrees pointing to the rear.  The drawings make note of the need for centering the nozzles on the rails and to ensure the nozzles & piping is securely fastened to eliminate vibration & misalignment.

How widespread rail washer usage was, I don't know.  I do not have all my references with me at this time.

Joe

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, July 29, 2011 10:28 PM

The only benefit to 'Steam Cleaning' rail would be in territories that have a high incidence of leaves building up on tracks in the Fall.  Wet leaves on the rail diminsh the pulling capacity of a locomotive as well as hindering the braking abilities of the train.  A little high pressure 'dry' steam would do wonders in cleaning leaves off tracks.

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Posted by selector on Friday, July 29, 2011 7:54 PM

That does make sense to me.

Crandell

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 29, 2011 5:40 PM

I know I have heard mention of that washing practice somewhere, but maybe only one mention of it.  And it was explained as being a way to reduce the rolling friction that the sand would have on the rolling stock behind the locomotive, as Jay mentioned. 

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Posted by 7j43k on Friday, July 29, 2011 3:51 PM

I wonder if this "rail cleaning" device is actually a blowdown pipe/muffler.  A person uninformed on steam locomotive technology might assume such when observing a blowdown event.

 

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Posted by JayPotter on Friday, July 29, 2011 10:53 AM

I expect that the theory behind removing sand after the passage of steam-locomotive driving wheels would be to reduce the rolling resistance of the body of the train -- basically the same theory that's behind applying top-of-rail lubrication behind the wheels of the trailing unit in a head-end consist of diesel locomotives.

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Posted by selector on Friday, July 29, 2011 10:33 AM

It would be news to me.  I haven't heard of such a thing, but...it is plausible.  I would think a railroad would rather its sand, pulverized already by passing trains or not, is going to provide traction for some time for successive locomotives, so cleaning the rails doesn't seem like a necessary thing.

I am curious to see if this is true.

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Steam locomotive rail cleaning
Posted by JayPotter on Friday, July 29, 2011 6:24 AM

I believe that some steam locomotives had equipment that would clean the rails -- I think by applying water or steam.  I've seen references to this being used to remove traction sand from the rails after the driving wheels had passed over it.  I haven't seen any references to cleaning rails in front of the driving wheels; and I presume that the application of moisture in front of the driving wheels would reduce tractive effort.

I would be interested in any information about steam-locomotive rail cleaning -- either in front or behind the driving wheels.

Thank you.

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