Trains.com

Burnsville, NC 0-4-0: I.D. needed

9337 views
11 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    May 2007
  • From: North Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 995 posts
Burnsville, NC 0-4-0: I.D. needed
Posted by Beach Bill on Sunday, May 22, 2011 5:07 PM

In October of 1977, I made a trip down into the mountains of North Carolina to photograph the Yancey RR.  At Burnsville, NC there was an 0-4-0 saddle-tanker (standard gauge) on a side track.  The locomotive bore Number 9, but the lettering on the tank was abraded or painted over - it was possibly :B & CF ?     My camera back then wasn't that good, but here's the picture.

This little 0-4-0 had clearly been receiving some attention, as the front footboards had been recently replaced.  I did some on-line searching but haven't been able to find anything definitive.  I found some reference to a Brooklyn Eastern District Terminal (BEDT) 0-4-0 having gone to North Carolina, but it was #15 and this one was clearly #9.

Can anyone provide an identification & history on this locomotive?

Thanks, Bill

With reasonable men, I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter, nor waste arguments where they will certainly be lost. William Lloyd Garrison
  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Northview, Missouri
  • 409 posts
Posted by JamesP on Sunday, May 22, 2011 8:58 PM

You might try checking www.steamlocomotive.com  - there is a surviving steam locomotive database that might be of some help.  In NC, there is an 0-4-0 #9 listed as operational at the Handy Dandy Railroad in Denton - not sure if it is the one you are looking for.  Of course, numbers, appearance and features of steam locomotives can change over the years - especially operating locomotives, since they have to meet the needs of the railroad that is running them.

 - James

  • Member since
    May 2007
  • From: North Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 995 posts
Posted by Beach Bill on Monday, May 23, 2011 8:40 AM

You know, James, I had looked at steamlocomotive.com (which is on my favorites bar), but the photo of the locomotive from that site showed a tender locomotive (no saddletank) that was visually quite different.   The website for the "Handy Dandy Railroad" does say that the locomotive came from Burnsville in 1979 (which would be after the Yancy washed out).  The history and exhibit pages for Handy Dandy does not have much technical information on the locomotive.  So that would then seem to be the same locomotive, and one can learn that it is a former U.S. Navy, Porter, built in 1942.

The question is still out there for information such as construction #, where it had served the Navy, and how it came to be in the mountains of N.C.

(Thanks)   Bill

 

With reasonable men, I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter, nor waste arguments where they will certainly be lost. William Lloyd Garrison
  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Northview, Missouri
  • 409 posts
Posted by JamesP on Monday, May 23, 2011 1:14 PM

Bill, I also think this is the same locomotive.  I found this picture of it with the following remarks:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=289199&nseq=5

These are the remarks given by photographer Nick McLean:   "There are likely not too many US steam locos that have been active for 27 years and have never been captured for RP, this is an exception. #9 was built for the US Navy by Porter as a tank engine in 1942. She's pretty hefty as far as 0-4-0's go: weighs about 50 tons, has 45" drivers, 16x24" cylinders, and makes about 21,500 lbs. of tractive effort. She was returned to service for the annual Southeast Old Threshers reunion in 1982 looking like a completely new loco. She was converted from oil to coal, and her tank was replaced by a 2000 gal. capacity tender. Other modifications included removal of the second sand dome, major changes to the cab, and oddly the addition of a diesel-like mechanical bell under the cab."

So there you have it, it was heavily rebuilt from a tank engine with the same number as your picture.  As you noted, the website for SETR says the engine came from Burnsville in '79... all circumstantial evidence, but it appears the little tank engine from your picture is alive and in steam!  But your other questions still remain: where did it serve the Navy, and how did it wind up in Burnsville?  Hopefully someone else out there will know the answers.

 - James

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • 50 posts
Posted by Southerngreen1401 on Monday, May 23, 2011 5:55 PM

That is the same steam engine when Denton NC got the engine she was converted from a saddle tank engine and rebuilt with a tender.   This engine and the owner get no support from the NC transporation museum at Spencer, NC.  They are less than 50 miles a part as the crow flies.  They do not want any part of the engine, but former staff and voluteers do help them with the engine.  I use to help both museums.

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Northview, Missouri
  • 409 posts
Posted by JamesP on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 7:39 PM

Here is a video of it leaving the station:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud4eAmYvamE

Pretty impressive bark and a nice whistle!  I know opinions may vary regarding the conversion from saddletanker to tender engine, but I think they did a nice job on it and it is good to see it in steam.  My hat is off to the owner.

 - James

  • Member since
    May 2007
  • From: North Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 995 posts
Posted by Beach Bill on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 1:10 PM

Thanks for that, JamesP.  I agree that it is very "throaty" for a small locomotive, and the whistle sounds like some of those up at Cass, WV.   I can understand the corrosion issues under a saddletank might be difficult to keep track of, and now they have everything accessible.  In that it was a US Navy "war baby" switcher without a "pedigree" of service on a main line, or known ties to a specific RR, I can understand the conversion.  The conversion and restoration to operation is certainly preferable to scrapping.

I can think of at least three other "thresher" groups which have done well with railroad locomotives even though that may not be their original/primary interest:   Freeport, IL;  Hesston, Indiana, and Mt. Pleasant, Iowa.

Bill

With reasonable men, I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter, nor waste arguments where they will certainly be lost. William Lloyd Garrison
  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 6:05 PM

Hey, who cares if it's converted from a saddletanker?  It looks GOOD!!!  And it sounds as good as it looks, and that's a good lookin'  trains it's pulling as well.   And best of all, it's alive!   Thanks for the video link!

  • Member since
    April 2015
  • 4 posts
Posted by Undertaker2480 on Thursday, April 9, 2015 11:30 AM
I have a little extra info on this engine. It served for a time on the Blacksburg and Cherokee Falls RR, known as the Swamp Rabbit line. The general manager was Bill Cannon, brother to Yancey GM Jean Cannon. When the B&CF went under, the loco and a couple of cars were moved to Burnsville to try and rekindle excursion service on the Yancey. Yes, there was another steamer used on the YRR in 1969, the former 0-6-0 BEDT #15 operated under the guise of Southern Appalachian Railway, using trackage rights over the Yancey. This effort failed. Tourist and excursion service did do well for a few years, and Mr. Cannon had apparently tried to revitalize the excursion service with steam, but Mother Nature had other ideas and flooding in November 1977 rendered most of the line inoperable. The loco was sold off, and now, as told, resides in Denton.
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 7,170 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Thursday, April 9, 2015 4:38 PM

Beach Bill

In October of 1977, I made a trip down into the mountains of North Carolina to photograph the Yancey RR.  At Burnsville, NC there was an 0-4-0 saddle-tanker (standard gauge) on a side track.  The locomotive bore Number 9, but the lettering on the tank was abraded or painted over - it was possibly :B & CF ?     My camera back then wasn't that good, but here's the picture.

This little 0-4-0 had clearly been receiving some attention, as the front footboards had been recently replaced.  I did some on-line searching but haven't been able to find anything definitive.  I found some reference to a Brooklyn Eastern District Terminal (BEDT) 0-4-0 having gone to North Carolina, but it was #15 and this one was clearly #9.

Can anyone provide an identification & history on this locomotive?

Thanks, Bill

 

Here is a link copied to Beach Bill's photo of the Locomotibe in Question at Burnsville,NC.linked @                                                   http://s272.photobucket.com/user/SHAGRR/media/1977102307.jpg.html

Digging a little Deeper.. The forerunner of the Yancy RR was the BlackMountain RR

Here is a series of photos of the BMRR #1 which later became CLinchfield RR #1

See @ http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr656.htm 

  I may be mistaken but the ClinchfieldRR used this locomotive as its power on its Christmas Trains ( later with a EMD(F) B-unit for its power?)  This is the Christmas train that in '92 was the one that the UPRR 3985 disguised as a CC&ORR #676 pulled.)

To back track a little the #15 0-4-0 Steamer at Burnsville is somewhat different from the B.E.D.T #15 as pictured here:See linked @  http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr1007/bedt15.jpg   The Water Tank may or may not have received some modifications before it was removed and a tender added later(?)

Several years back we had a Thread here on this Forum on the( General Comments) Discussion section.  it was a based on a very complete history by a gentleman: Mr. Phillip M. Golstein                                                                 See site linked @ http://www.trainweb.org/bedt/BEDT.html

[This is a site to visit many times...It contains an impossible amount of  good information on the railroads of New York's Harbor District... Enjoy!]

Here is a link to photo of BEDT #9.. Obviously NOT an 0 -4_0 ! 

BEDT#15  may possibly be the Engine in Question see history of BEDT #15 at Link @ http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/bedt/BEDTRosters.html#Steam

Hope this will help answer some of the questions here.

 

 

 

 


 

  • Member since
    August 2013
  • 3,006 posts
Posted by ACY Tom on Friday, April 10, 2015 10:12 AM

It's interesting that he other Yancey saddle tank engine also exists.  BEDT 0-6-0T number 15 eventually ended up on the Strasburg where she was rebuilt to resemble Thomas the Tank Engine, with side tanks, a new cab, and other detail modifications.  She is currently operational in that guise.  Five BEDT 0-6-0T's have been preserved.

Tom  

  • Member since
    December 2014
  • 1 posts
Posted by MARTY HAGA on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 11:48 AM

Yes, I beleive it is the same locomotive. The Engine did have a saddle tank at one point which implys the extremely tall smokestack & domes.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy