steam locomotive equipment

[richg1998]

A couple links concerning poling.

http://books.google.com/books?id=2fh0H0USx-0C&pg=PA175&dq=railroad+poling+pockets#v=onepage&q=railroad%20poling%20pockets&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Jn1BAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA97&dq=railroad+poling+pockets&lr=#v=onepage&q=&f=false

It was a dangerous operation. The link below is only one example. The wood pole could break and splinter if the engineer moved the loco to quickly. There were many accidents because of this operation.

 http://books.google.com/books?id=U_MVAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA180&dq=railroad+poling+danger&lr=#v=onepage&q=railroad%20poling%20danger&f=false

Rich

[Falcon48]

I have never actually seen poling done either. But I suspect that, where it was used, a groundman guided the pole. It would be extremely difficult for a locomotive to maintain the constant pressure needed to keep the pole from falling out, and the possibility of the pole just dropping out at random places was probably not acceptable.  I certainly wouldn't want to be the guy guiding the pole, but there were all sorts of things done in the olden days that are pretty scary now.  Ever seen the old movies of guys passing signals while standing on the top of boxcars?

[challenger3980]

  I would think that the main use would be to get the car to the opposite end of the locomotive that would couple to it in a normal move. If you have adjacent stub end tracks with a facing point switch, and your locomotive facing the switch, and want the car behind the locomotive, you would run past the car on the adjacent track, then set your pole on the back of the locomotive and push the car through the switch. Your car is now behind the locomotive, not in front of it. There is not always a run around track where you need one.

Doug

[cx500]

Paul Milenkovic

There are probably historic reasons for doing things a certain way, and I can see where pushing against a pole held in a pocket (by hand!) is a dangerous practice.

......

 

I never saw it done, but I assume once the pole was in position and bearing at both ends, the crew member moved out of the working area.  Setting it up was not exactly safe, but nowhere near as dangerous as continuing to guide the pole. Once set up, the pole would tend to stay in place as long as the pressure continued. 

When was it used?  One scenario would be to give the car(s) a kick, after which the engine would slow, the pole would fall out and the car continue to roll.  It enables the engine to lift a car from a facing point siding, and still have it behind in the train.  I understand the process may also have been used to adjust the location of boxcars at loading doors, especially when there were other cars on the track that couldn't be readily moved.

John

[selector]

That is a nice image, cx500.  I think I see a slip swtich at lower left.

-Crandell

[Paul Milenkovic]

There are probably historic reasons for doing things a certain way, and I can see where pushing against a pole held in a pocket (by hand!) is a dangerous practice.

On the other hand, there is the ever present quest to move cars around sidings without the traditional coupled-to-a-switch-engine approach.  I see crews using front-end loaders to push coal cars for spotting on the unloading tipple at the central heating plant where I work.

Couldn't the powers that be have mandated a kind of post hole at the corners of freight cars and switch engines, and how about a metal telescoping pole that would plug in to each post hole at each end?  How about some kind of boat winch crank on the telescoping pole to take up the slack?  And how about some wood reinforcement inside the telescoping pole that would support force in compression when the slack was taken out with the winch?

What I am thinking of is some kind of pole counterpart to the European link-and-screw coupler, not the best coupler, but an improvement over the dangerous link-and-pin coupler.

The old fashioned link-and-pin required a crew member to stand between the cars as the cars were coupled, and you can imagine the potential for horrific accidents.  The European system requires a crew member to go between cars to set the hook, but not while the switch engine is in motion, and the tension on the hook is set by working some kind of screw to apply force to the buffers.

[cx500]

cx500

A picture I took in 1972 shows a TH&B switcher with a pole hung on brackets below the running board.  I understand the Hamilton (Ontario) industrial area along the waterfront had lots of congested areas which may explain why the practice continued quite late in that area.  I never noticed it at the time, but when I was looking again at the slide two years ago realized what I had, unknowingly,  captured on film.  I have scanned the slide, but it isn't on any web page so I can't post it here.

John

 

I am now able to post the picture.  The pole is on the brackets above the front truck.  The poling pocket on the switcher is that semicircular rib but serves the same function as the older style pocket.  The chain is for pulling cars, the pole is for pushing, the cars on an adjacent track.

John

 

[cx500]

martin.knoepfel

If you carefully look at pictures of old electric enginges or first oder second generation diesels, you'll see they were equipped for poling, too. The practise was not limited to steam-days 

A picture I took in 1972 shows a TH&B switcher with a pole hung on brackets below the running board.  I understand the Hamilton (Ontario) industrial area along the waterfront had lots of congested areas which may explain why the practice continued quite late in that area.  I never noticed it at the time, but when I was looking again at the slide two years ago realized what I had, unknowingly,  captured on film.  I have scanned the slide, but it isn't on any web page so I can't post it here.

John

[martin.knoepfel]

If you carefully look at pictures of old electric enginges or first oder second generation diesels, you'll see they were equipped for poling, too. The pracise was not limited to steam-days 

[gacuster]

Thanks for the reply, I sure wouldn't want to be anywhere near the pole when a Big Boy started pushing on it!

[Deggesty]

gacuster

During a recent visit to the National RR Museum in Green Bay I noticed that the steam locomotives on display there all had a circular indentation about 3" in diameter and 1/2" deep on both sides of the pilot beam.  Identical indentations were on the rear beam of the tenders.  What was their purpose?  The only thing I could think of was something I saw in a book of O. Winston Link photos where a N & W crew was using a long wooden pole held against the pilot beam of a small locomotive to push cars on an adjoining track as part of a switching move.  The thing is, the locomotives at the museum were a 2-8-4, a 2-10-4 and a 4-8-8-4, hardly the type to be used for switching.

You thought right; these indentations are poling pockets, and all cars, as well as locomotives, used to have them. Even road engines had to be used in switching along the way. Of course, this was a dangerous practice--the pole could snap and cause damage to personnel--and it is not allowed any more. Much safer is the practice of using a bar against a wheel to move a car; my brother who worked at US Steel's wire mill in Ensley, Alabama, told me of moving cars in this way.

Johnny

[gacuster]

During a recent visit to the National RR Museum in Green Bay I noticed that the steam locomotives on display there all had a circular indentation about 3" in diameter and 1/2" deep on both sides of the pilot beam.  Identical indentations were on the rear beam of the tenders.  What was their purpose?  The only thing I could think of was something I saw in a book of O. Winston Link photos where a N & W crew was using a long wooden pole held against the pilot beam of a small locomotive to push cars on an adjoining track as part of a switching move.  The thing is, the locomotives at the museum were a 2-8-4, a 2-10-4 and a 4-8-8-4, hardly the type to be used for switching.