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A question about turntables

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A question about turntables
Posted by 54light15 on Sunday, June 6, 2021 9:31 PM

I have seen photos of turntables in Germany that mesh together by having two turntables intermingle where the tables can meet and locomotives can traverse directly from one to the other. Two roundhouses or even more can be set up like this. I have also seen in Dresden where there were four turntables in a row with roundhouses for each one. Was there anywhere in North America that was like that? 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, June 6, 2021 9:40 PM

I've seen a photograph of a German steam facility where three turntables "interlocked."  Reminded me of the Ballantine Beer logo!

I know the Jersey Central had two roundhouses in their Communipaw engine facility, but I don't believe they had intermingled turntables.  Both roundhouses and turntables were stand-alones to my knowledge.

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Posted by timz on Monday, June 7, 2021 10:54 AM

You mean two turntables tangent to each other? I'm guessing none in the US. Did any turntables in the US even have overlapping tracks?

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Posted by Backshop on Monday, June 7, 2021 12:05 PM

I'm aware of several terminals that had two roundhouses, but all were one for freight engines and one for passenger, so there really wasn't a need to intermix units.

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Posted by 54light15 on Monday, June 7, 2021 2:54 PM

google "dual railway turntables' and photos will come up that are what I'm talking about. Interesting, aren't they? I'm  unable to post a link but there they are. 

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Posted by rixflix on Monday, June 7, 2021 3:14 PM

Ah yes, Ballantine's "Purity Body and Flavor". "Hey getcha cold beer..."

Seems like we are discussing two things here: the inline abutting and the Venn diagram overlapping pit designs. The former could be used in some sort of sequential servicing operation, but in the US we would have used indoor or outdoor transfer tables or an overhead gantry and a rectangular house for that purpose. The double Venn types I have seen (Google Earth, Pinterest?) were in space constricted  locations. Imagine the coordination between operators for that, but most likely they were controlled remotely by one person. 

Compared with having separate turntable/roundhouse combinations the above designs would seem to allow fewer radial service tracks.

"...getcha ice cold Ballantine beer." Mel Allen here... oops, no it's

Rick

rixflix aka Captain Video. Blessed be Jean Shepherd and all His works!!! Hooray for 1939, the all time movie year!!! I took that ride on the Reading but my Baby caught the Katy and left me a mule to ride.

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Posted by 54light15 on Monday, June 7, 2021 5:25 PM

"...then you've got three rings Ballantine, now it's premium, it's a very special glass of beer."  I know there's more to it, but that's all I can remember. But, Ballantine's IPA was a damned good beverage and they don't make it anymore unless that's changed. I am thinking of the Venn diagram type of turntable. On my previous layout I had two turntables adjacent but it didn't work as well as I'd hoped so my layout now only has the one. 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, June 7, 2021 7:24 PM

rixflix
The double Venn types I have seen (Google Earth, Pinterest?) were in space constricted  locations. Imagine the coordination between operators for that, but most likely they were controlled remotely by one person. 

A german poster said the reason for the overlaping turntables was while they originally did not overlap, subsequently larger engines called for larger turntables.

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Posted by rixflix on Sunday, June 13, 2021 9:22 AM

I just now looked at the Juniata Shops' turntable on Google Earth. A bi-level turntable with two bridges, one atop the other in one pit! Superimposed time lapse?

Earth rarely fails to amaze me.

Rick  

rixflix aka Captain Video. Blessed be Jean Shepherd and all His works!!! Hooray for 1939, the all time movie year!!! I took that ride on the Reading but my Baby caught the Katy and left me a mule to ride.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, June 13, 2021 10:42 AM

rixflix
A bi-level turntable with two bridges, one atop the other in one pit!

Say WHAT???

But thanks; you've given me a useful idea.

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Posted by rixflix on Sunday, June 13, 2021 11:30 AM

Overmod
But thanks; you've given me a useful idea.

Uh-Oh! But yes, I can picture a second level bridge supported by the ring rail and with no center pivot point; bi-level servicing houses too. Why you'd need all this is beyond my ken however.

I just recalled "an elaborate system of trusses" from the days when SNL was watchable.

Rick

rixflix aka Captain Video. Blessed be Jean Shepherd and all His works!!! Hooray for 1939, the all time movie year!!! I took that ride on the Reading but my Baby caught the Katy and left me a mule to ride.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, June 13, 2021 2:30 PM

Network, Rick, not system.

And not the kind of trusses we'd need.

But if United Feed and Grain is picking up the tab, perhaps we should consider it.

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Sunday, June 13, 2021 3:30 PM

Most impressive "turntable" operation that I've experienced was during a tour of the 200 inch telescope on Palomar Mountain. The dome rides on a ring rail, the start of rotation and ride were so smooth that it felt like the outside world was turning while we were stationary.

The obseratory dome is big enough several stacked tracks.

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Sunday, June 20, 2021 10:57 AM

REJOICE! Pabst makes it and it's available nationwide

https://beerconnoisseur.com/beer/ballantine-ipa

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Sunday, June 20, 2021 11:25 AM

REJOICE! Pabst makes it and it's available nationwide

https://beerconnoisseur.com/beer/ballantine-ipa

CNJ had a small fleet of NJDX insulated boxcars (RBL) in both 40 and 50 foot plug door variants to service the P Ballantine and Son brewery in Newark, NJ. Several manufacturers have offered both cars in HO (Do a search on EBAY for "NJDX") , so you can sip your ale as you assemble your kit!

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Posted by 54light15 on Sunday, June 20, 2021 1:37 PM

Reading about Ballantine on Wikipedia, a man named George Griswold Frelinghuysen ran the company for several years. If you remember "The Sopranos"  a development on Frelinghuysen Avenue looms large in several episodes. 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, June 20, 2021 4:06 PM

The Frelinghuysen's are a very old and distinguished family in New Jersey.  According to family lore it was Frederick Frelinghuysen who shot the Hessian commander, Colonel Johann Rall, out of the saddle at the Battle of Trenton.

God knows who really did it though.  

Here's his story:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Frelinghuysen_(general)

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Posted by Lithonia Operator on Monday, June 21, 2021 12:16 PM

timz

You mean two turntables tangent to each other? I'm guessing none in the US. Did any turntables in the US even have overlapping tracks?

 

If you mean that the tracks surrounding the pit overlap, then I'm virtually certain that some in the US are that way. I think Steamtown's is that way.

Still in training.


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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, June 25, 2021 9:02 AM

Not just some, but most, except for those serving the smallest roundhouses..

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, June 25, 2021 9:42 AM

What I'm familiar with is optimizing the number of stalls by 'siamesing' converging rails from adjacent approach tracks or stalls (cutting them as for switch points is one method) so that they are just thick enough to 'match' the railhead profile with the table aligned to one or the other route.

'Overlap' to me is not an issue of physical fouling as you approach the table, but of physically having some approach routes cross others, as with gaps or frogs.  I don't think that's at all common... but I don't know.

One thing limiting the number of stalls is how far the 'fouling point' for equipment needs to be back toward the stalls.  I suspect in some cases the 'taper' observed at one or both ends of a locomotive might be for this reason rather than for road or siding clearance... 

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, August 13, 2021 8:31 PM

I seem to recall that the Ivy City engine terminal in Washington DC had twin turntables. None of the "overlapping" variety that I can recall in North America, however.

http://industrialscenery.blogspot.com/2016/01/twin-turntable-roundhouses.html

Regards, Ed

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Posted by 7j43k on Sunday, August 15, 2021 3:51 PM

Lithonia Operator

 

 
timz

You mean two turntables tangent to each other? I'm guessing none in the US. Did any turntables in the US even have overlapping tracks?

 

 

 

If you mean that the tracks surrounding the pit overlap, then I'm virtually certain that some in the US are that way. I think Steamtown's is that way.

 

 

Not when I looked at some photos.

But there WERE some in the US:

 

 

and here's a link to learn more:

 

http://industrialscenery.blogspot.com/2015/07/cnws-passenger-yard.html

 

Ed

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, August 22, 2021 8:03 PM

I would think that a longer turntable would be cheaper maintenance in the long run to prevent all the complicated track work. Too many frogs for one.   A problem with that could be the locos being stored out of the stall but not on turntable.

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Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, August 25, 2021 5:09 PM

blue streak 1

I would think that a longer turntable would be cheaper maintenance in the long run to prevent all the complicated track work. Too many frogs for one.   A problem with that could be the locos being stored out of the stall but not on turntable.

 

There's not much maintenance on those frogs.  None, I would guess.  Wear and damage to a frog is from high speed of equipment.  That ain't happenin' here.

I think the larger turntable would have cost a good bit more than the cost of the frogs--don't forget building the larger pit to go with it.  

I think they did this clever trick to have more stalls in a specific sized roundhouse footprint.  There are 26 stalls in 180 degrees of roundhouse (It's a little larger, with perhaps 29). Of course, there's other dimensions to consider, like stall length and external track length.  And turntable length, which doesn't look very large at all.

 

Ed

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Posted by NittanyLion on Thursday, August 26, 2021 12:29 PM

rixflix
Superimposed time lapse?

Definitely this.

They recently replaced the bridge on that turntable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkAqCcyJ9z8 look how clean!

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