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Part Identification of PM 1225

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Part Identification of PM 1225
Posted by Oregon_Steamer on Saturday, March 20, 2021 2:13 AM

I am working on a model project that uses simmilar parts to the Lima Berks, I came here because no one on my model form is replying to me so I came here.

So does anyone recognize this part circled? 

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701238260508131338/822732120047878155/unknown.png

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, March 20, 2021 10:29 AM

Let me light that up for you.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701238260508131338/822732120047878155/unknown.png

I'm not sure myself what that is, but it looks like something that either puts water into the boiler or takes it out of the boiler for some purpose.

Injector?  Feedwater heater?  Automatic lube system?  As I said, I'm not sure.  Hopefully someone else knows.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, March 20, 2021 2:09 PM

I believe that is the high-pressure pump for the Worthington SA open feedwater heater.  Another example is visible on this 2-10-4:

http://www.llarson.com/steam/schenzinger/images/NA68.jpg

A later improvement was relocation of the check valve from the position shown to one close to or on top of the boiler, as in the improvements to the NYC L-3 and L-4 Mohawks.

 See the 1947 Locomotive Cyclopedia p.368.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, March 20, 2021 4:01 PM

Overmod
See the 1947 Locomotive Cyclopedia p.368.

Good Lord, YOU'VE got a copy of the Locomotive Cyclopedia, and from the 40's no less?  Wow.

The closest I've ever come to getting one was at a train show about five years ago.  The seller didn't have a price on it, and when I asked I'm surprised I didn't need EMT's when I got the answer!  So back on the shelf it went. 

Maybe some day...

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Posted by Oregon_Steamer on Saturday, March 20, 2021 4:31 PM

@Overmod Thank you I knew 1225 had an SA SA type feedwater heater, but I didn't know that was part of the system.

This Mikado has the same type and looks like it's a relative of the famous Lima Berks.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, March 20, 2021 5:42 PM

Flintlock76
Good Lord, YOU'VE got a copy of the Locomotive Cyclopedia, and from the 40's no less?

The '47 Cyc was produced at what was perhaps the high-water mark of practical American locomotive steam technology, and while there are a few refinements by the '50 to '52 versions, notably what would be the final refinements of the Franklin System of Steam Distribution, a tremendous (and horrifying in retrospect!) amount of material covered in the '47 edition is not to be found later.

Incidentally I have two of them; the first one was bought cheap because it had been exposed to mildew (and had to be gone through page-by-page to make it safe to read) and had what might be charitably termed 'binding issues'.  As an expensively-offered 'rare book' it was despicable; as a source of information, near-priceless.

The second copy I bought on eBay, this January, for $125 with free shipping.  I bought it to digitize at high resolution, and put up as a reference, but have not done that, just like I haven't worked on my translation of volume 2 of Chapelon's LLAV. Embarrassed 

They are there if you're patient and know where to look... Wink

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Saturday, March 20, 2021 6:03 PM

Oregon_Steamer

@Overmod Thank you I knew 1225 had an SA SA type feedwater heater, but I didn't know that was part of the system.

This Mikado has the same type and looks like it's a relative of the famous Lima Berks.

 

Yes it is a Worthington SA feed water heater pump and yes that DT&I Mike is related to the Berks.

LIMA built those Mikes for the DT&I starting in 1940 and finishing up in 1944, and they are every bit just smaller versions of the classic LIMA Berk with 63" drivers and a smaller firebox.

To model something similar I did this:

 

I have always liked the DT&I 800's and wanted something like that for my freelanced ATLANTIC CENTRAL. So I built five of these from Bachmann Berks, this picture taken before the paint shop.

Considering the weight and grate area the GN O-8 or the NYC H-10 Mikados, the LIMA Berks could have been Mikes on the roads with the best track. So I built some in HO.

Sheldon 

 

    

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Posted by Oregon_Steamer on Saturday, March 20, 2021 7:53 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

I'm doing the same thing with my Mantua Mike.

 
Oregon_Steamer

@Overmod Thank you I knew 1225 had an SA SA type feedwater heater, but I didn't know that was part of the system.

This Mikado has the same type and looks like it's a relative of the famous Lima Berks.

 

 

 

Yes it is a Worthington SA feed water heater pump and yes that DT&I Mike is related to the Berks.

LIMA built those Mikes for the DT&I starting in 1940 and finishing up in 1944, and they are every bit just smaller versions of the classic LIMA Berk with 63" drivers and a smaller firebox.

To model something similar I did this:

 

I have always liked the DT&I 800's and wanted something like that for my freelanced ATLANTIC CENTRAL. So I built five of these from Bachmann Berks, this picture taken before the paint shop.

Considering the weight and grate area the GN O-8 or the NYC H-10 Mikados, the LIMA Berks could have been Mikes on the roads with the best track. So I built some in HO.

Sheldon 

 

 

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Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Saturday, March 20, 2021 7:54 PM

Sheldon:

If anyone casts any shade on it, I still admire your free-lance HO model and regard it as a plausible "would-have-been."

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Saturday, March 20, 2021 8:29 PM

Paul Milenkovic

Sheldon:

If anyone casts any shade on it, I still admire your free-lance HO model and regard it as a plausible "would-have-been."

 

Thank you Paul.

I did considerable research on the plausiblity of such a loco. In fact, both GN O-8 and the DT&I 800 class Mikes had very heavy axle loads on their single axle Delta trailing trucks.

I think if we get into the finest points of steam engineering, the Berks had their good reasons for being designed with the four wheel trailer, but was it absolutely necessary? Likely not if you had good track.

And several roads experimented with 69" or 70" drivers on Mikados, so that part is reasonable as well. I have heard stories that may crews on the roads that owned them, just considered the Berk's, "Big Mikes" anyway, dispite the extra axle......

By using PM, C&O and NKP versions from Bachmann, and swaping parts around, I built five locos representing three sub classes. More photos when I get all the trains unpacked from the move.

Any way, thanks again.

Sheldon 

    

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Saturday, March 20, 2021 8:41 PM

Oregon_Steamer said "I'm doing the same thing with my Mantua Mike"

It is my firm belief the Mantua Mike was modeled from the DT&I 800's, just less the all weather cab, which was offered by Kemtron, now Precision Scale.

The Delta booster truck under my conversion is also ex Kemtron, now Precision Scale.

Sheldon

 

 

    

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, March 20, 2021 9:34 PM

Beautiful model sheldon, My complements!

Wayne

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, March 20, 2021 9:37 PM

Overmod
The '47 Cyc was produced at what was perhaps the high-water mark of practical American locomotive

Oh yeah, that's why I want one. Two would be better, one for me and one for someone I know who could make good use of it.

I'm patient.  Sooner or later my "right place, right time" luck will kick in again.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Saturday, March 20, 2021 10:05 PM

Flintlock76

Beautiful model sheldon, My complements!

Wayne

 

Thanks Wayne, I can't wait to get this new layout going and give them something to do....

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Oregon_Steamer on Sunday, March 21, 2021 12:20 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

 

 

 

 

Yes it is a Worthington SA feed water heater pump and yes that DT&I Mike is related to the Berks.

LIMA built those Mikes for the DT&I starting in 1940 and finishing up in 1944, and they are every bit just smaller versions of the classic LIMA Berk with 63" drivers and a smaller firebox.

 

Sheldon 

 

 

 

Since you pointed out that the loco has 63' drivers, I'd like to note that the USRA Light & Heavy Mikados also had the same driver diameter, so this means if a model maker wanted to make a USRA prototype then they could reuse the wheels or tires for a DT&I Mike.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, April 2, 2021 11:04 AM

Overmod
 
Flintlock76
Good Lord, YOU'VE got a copy of the Locomotive Cyclopedia, and from the 40's no less?

The '47 Cyc was produced at what was perhaps the high-water mark of practical American locomotive steam technology, and while there are a few refinements by the '50 to '52 versions, notably what would be the final refinements of the Franklin System of Steam Distribution, a tremendous (and horrifying in retrospect!) amount of material covered in the '47 edition is not to be found later.

They are there if you're patient and know where to look... 

But if you aren't patient, and the '50 to '52 Cyc is 'adequate to requirements'...

https://books.googleusercontent.com/books/content?req=AKW5QafEtz6Eal353Lf0hdKip_qM9w4S-KrizsWpN1yhLeo24pJwkxw_A6AdJHyG237238WXEVmcoQ9r9O7kLaqflMrKoh-d_csO6An3yjEqev_2BKSntLj1ewk7vxGtnEo5wIt1N5LZVYJe72kJgS-R9bL760OPJBAkvtNzU-WBL4dTOfDMFhsSmk1p1wNWrXqo-PWt4M8LkvQej-j-9Br-kYlY-V9sYnZVERqR-9oxlMuPDtxOsVvQPOT-8quMESsS07EGR5prQQ2ukbMTb0cpSaZB19XmNB3dM_64bwjUp7pM1FKUPSY

I don't know if this implies the '47 13th Edition is similarly digitized, but if it is, you'll save hundreds more...

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