Hi everyone, I live in an area where I have frequent encounters with the Hickory Creek, which was a streamlined tail car of the 20th Century Limited. Does anyone know how many other cars from the 20th Century survive? If so, do you know where they are and what types of cars they are? Thank you everyone.
Not sure how many survived. I do know many were bought and sent to Mexico.
pajrrDoes anyone know how many other cars from the 20th Century survive?
Post this on the RyPN interchange. "Rainier Rails" maintains an extremely detailed list of passenger-car histories, and will be able to provide you all the information on survivors, including those that may have recently been scrapped.
When you do your search , you will notice that by the early 60's NYC was reducing its comminment to its long distance passenger service. Sleepers and lounge's were sold off to various railroads. The 20 th century 4-4-2 Dr as well as mid train lounge's came off the rosters from 1960- 1962. Other sleepers and parlors were converter to commuter cars.
Shortly thereafter the train lost its all Pullman status. Sadly the train disappear into the mist in 1966.
ROBERT WILLISONSadly the train disappear into the mist in 1966.
It most certainly didn't fade away like MacArthur's old soldier. And it wasn't cut by some bean-counting attorney, either. Perlman made the conscious decision that if 25 and 26 weren't going to be run as full red-carpet trains, they wouldn't be run at all. And to this day I agree with his decision.
RME ROBERT WILLISON Sadly the train disappear into the mist in 1966. It most certainly didn't fade away like MacArthur's old soldier. And it wasn't cut by some bean-counting attorney, either. Perlman made the conscious decision that if 25 and 26 weren't going to be run as full red-carpet trains, they wouldn't be run at all. And to this day I agree with his decision.
ROBERT WILLISON Sadly the train disappear into the mist in 1966.
In the early 60's it was apparent that the NYC was bleeding cash on all of its passenger service's including its commuter operations and something had to be done.
But thanks for your input just the same.
My mistake, the train was not discontinued until 1967. She was carded to arrive in Chicago at 9 am . on her final run, she was 9 hours late so she could have both literally and figuratively disappear into the early misty night at the la Salle St station.
ROBERT WILLISONI simply stated the train was downgraded twice before it was finally discontinued.
No more, and perhaps less, than almost any other train of that era. Are you trying to claim that rolling out the red carpet, giving the women carnations on boarding, etc. demonstrates you have a cut-rate train?
And in my personal opinion perhaps not yours, the train was a shadow of her former past.
You're entitled to your opinion; I won't say it was wrong. I do know, however, that Perlman and others on the 'green team' remained proud of the train, enough so that diminishing its amenities or its speed for cost-cutting was not considered an option. That's well-established historically, whether you agree or not.
And she did glide into the mist on her final run.
The train was late account of a freight derailment, as I recall, not because of any sort of dawdling or lack of enthusiasm on the part of her people.
In 1968 when the Penn Central realigned its water level routes, all the remaining named trains lost their names. The PC still offered NYC/BOS service to Chicago and Detroit with sleepers, slumber coaches, diner and lounge services
What this has to do either with the Twentieth Century or with Perlman utterly escapes me. Had you forgotten, or were you ignorant of the fact that, Perlman was essentially summarily fired after the merger, and no one from the PRR driver's seat was particularly concerned with 'named trains' on That Other Railroad? Did you think that an overextended, quickly-running-bankrupt operation like PC cared about obviously money-losing passenger-train conventions? The point is that none of that crap applies in the least to Perlman and the Century.
I thought it highly interesting at the time, and still do, that when Amtrak took over, they kept running a Broadway, but did not reinstate a Twentieth Century. They couldn't do it at the time, and I'd argue that even with Ed Ellis providing and servicing some of the cars, they still can't. That train was the pride of the Central right up until it couldn't be. And then it was taken off, rather than suffer loss that would make it ordinary. That's the relevant point here.
According to The Twentieth Century Limited 1938-1967 by Richard J. Cook, Sr., 1995 printing:
Roster-Cars Purchased for Twentieth Century Limited-1938
Cars Purchased for Re-equipping the Twentieth Century Limited-1948
Most of the other entries say "scrapped" but a few say "disposition unknown". Anyways it's a good place to start.
Becky
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Thank you Becky for the information.
Wabash River also went to the B&O in 1956, along with Maumee River and Genesee River.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Small correction: PC did not discontinue the Century, i was discontinued, along with all other name trains except the Laurentian and Montreal Limited, in 1967, still New York Central.
After the "downgrading" with coaches and slumbercoach, service was still excellent and food just as fine in the two-unit dining car.
PC kept the Broadway with its name. But PRR had essentially ended it and transfered the name to th General. I'd say it was the only train under PC where service was really good-to-excellent.
Dave,
I totally agree with you. After coaches and slumbercoaches (sleeper-
coaches on the NYC) the "Century" was still one of the best trains
in the U.S. The coach section even had it's own diner-lounge and
coach passengers were not permitted in the first class portion of
the train. I rode the train several times and can say it was one
a wonderful experience. The coaches did nothing to downgrade
the train. Even the latter day "Super Chief" had it's coach section
(the "El Capitan) and the great Atlantic ocean liners were not
all first class.
a
RME ROBERT WILLISON I simply stated the train was downgraded twice before it was finally discontinued. No more, and perhaps less, than almost any other train of that era. Are you trying to claim that rolling out the red carpet, giving the women carnations on boarding, etc. demonstrates you have a cut-rate train? And in my personal opinion perhaps not yours, the train was a shadow of her former past. You're entitled to your opinion; I won't say it was wrong. I do know, however, that Perlman and others on the 'green team' remained proud of the train, enough so that diminishing its amenities or its speed for cost-cutting was not considered an option. That's well-established historically, whether you agree or not. And she did glide into the mist on her final run. The train was late account of a freight derailment, as I recall, not because of any sort of dawdling or lack of enthusiasm on the part of her people. In 1968 when the Penn Central realigned its water level routes, all the remaining named trains lost their names. The PC still offered NYC/BOS service to Chicago and Detroit with sleepers, slumber coaches, diner and lounge services What this has to do either with the Twentieth Century or with Perlman utterly escapes me. Had you forgotten, or were you ignorant of the fact that, Perlman was essentially summarily fired after the merger, and no one from the PRR driver's seat was particularly concerned with 'named trains' on That Other Railroad? Did you think that an overextended, quickly-running-bankrupt operation like PC cared about obviously money-losing passenger-train conventions? The point is that none of that crap applies in the least to Perlman and the Century. I thought it highly interesting at the time, and still do, that when Amtrak took over, they kept running a Broadway, but did not reinstate a Twentieth Century. They couldn't do it at the time, and I'd argue that even with Ed Ellis providing and servicing some of the cars, they still can't. That train was the pride of the Central right up until it couldn't be. And then it was taken off, rather than suffer loss that would make it ordinary. That's the relevant point here. Not sure what you are arguing, except with your self. I just pointed out in my opinion that the train was down graded, some of its cars sold off. I did state the train was 9 hours late on its final run, I didn't say that it was because of NYC. The derailment is fairly common knowledge, did think I needed to write a book on the posting. NYC did maintain decent device to the end, as did PC. I rode PC train 27-17 from Albany NY to Chicago April 5 1971. Had a slumber single room . like today's lakeshore Ltd, 427 was combined in Albany with 27-17-61 . the combine train 27- 17 continued on to Buffalo where the train split again, 17 went north to Detroit with coaches, sleepers to Detroit and coaches and snack service arriving in Chicago between 1 and 2 PM. Train 27 ( formerly the new England states ltd ) Continued West with its diner and lounge,sleepers and slumber coaches arriving in Chicago at 12:15 PM. The ride was pretty smooth and we arrived 5 minutes off the carded time. The slumber coach was in good repair and breakfast in the diner very good.
ROBERT WILLISON I simply stated the train was downgraded twice before it was finally discontinued.
I asked the question via PM, and while "Rainier Rails" says he isn't registered to post on the Trains forums, he provided this link to a relevant RyPN thread on all surviving NYC lightweight equipment with the comment that all the equipment from the Century is noted therein. Some of this will update, past 1995, what Penny Trains has so nicely provided.
pajrr Hi everyone, I live in an area where I have frequent encounters with the Hickory Creek, which was a streamlined tail car of the 20th Century Limited. Does anyone know how many other cars from the 20th Century survive? If so, do you know where they are and what types of cars they are? Thank you everyone.
Robert Willison, your last sentence is wrong because I rode the 20th century Limited from Chicago to New York on the first Sunday in September 1967. I remember it was Sunday because the promised free glass of champagne could not be served as the train was passing through Ohio.
GARTH STEVENSON Robert Willison, your last sentence is wrong because I rode the 20th century Limited from Chicago to New York on the first Sunday in September 1967. I remember it was Sunday because the promised free glass of champagne could not be served as the train was passing through Ohio.
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