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A Visit to Steamtown--Part Four--Thoughts on reviving regular steam operations

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A Visit to Steamtown--Part Four--Thoughts on reviving regular steam operations
Posted by Railvt on Sunday, September 27, 2015 6:57 PM

This part of my Steamtown report will focus on ways to restore regular and routine steam operation at the site. If there is a single need that overrides all else at Steamtown this is it. The place is simply too quiet, in the absence of steam, to justify its name! No photos this time. 
My earlier suggestion for reorganizing the scattered engines now resting (rusting) all over the yards into lines interpreting their roles in regular service is only a first step. In the winter as many engines as possible should return to shelter in the roundhouse and shops.
 
Obviously more of the collection also needs to go indoors routinely, but to do so requires the construction of buildings which are clearly beyond the limits of Steamtown’s annual budget of about $5,200,000. There is plenty of room for such a building(s) behind the existing roundhouse and in front of the Administration Building if/when funding ever becomes available. This is an area that cries out for grantsmanship efforts, but in the immediate term it is critical for Steamtown to get not only 0-6-0 #26, but also the partially finished B&M #3713 back in service. No other fundraising effort is as important.
 
Other posters on the second part of this report raise questions about Steamtown’s mission. At least one asserts that interpreting the steam era does not require running anything. I sincerely disagree. For the non-railfan in particular (who are the overwhelming majority of visitors) it is the smell, sound and feel of steam that makes the experience real. Only then will they care at all for a state of the art museum, or a (too static) roundhouse and shops!
 
I’ve run tours by rail worldwide for 32 years. Many of my clients were train buffs, but even for a train focused company like mine, the majority were not. It was riding (and thus experiencing) trains that got them to book my tours.
 
The otherwise inactive Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania is a nearly perfect display of train history, but it is the live Strasburg RR steam operation across the street which completes the program there and makes it all seem real.
 
 
In order to get the Congress receptive to further investments in Steamtown’s physical plant the park must arrest the long and sustained decline in its visitation, which has unfortunately gone from above 200,000 in the early years of NPS management to under 100,000 in recent seasons. On a perfect September Friday afternoon (the 11th) this year I seriously doubt there were even 50 visitors on site—including those enjoying the adjacent (with shared parking and boarding platforms) Electric City Trolley Museum. I saw only two other explorers during my hour in the roundhouse and no one else was walking through the yards.
 
When Steamtown began it ran regular weekend steam trips from Scranton 13 miles up the rugged DL&W Pocono Mainline to Moscow, as well as weekday steam yard trips. As the budget squeeze tightened (nothing gets cheaper as we all know) and as the inability to get enough engines into serviceable condition escalated, Steamtown shifted to running a much more limited number of longer trips and those not to a predictable pattern.
 
Instead of being able to count on one or two Moscow trips each weekend day visitors need today to get a “Trip Planner” calendar from the NPS. The good news is that trips now sometimes go as far as the Delaware Water Gap, but only the yard operations run to a regular pattern (and that typically only Friday thru Sunday. Worse, since 2012 there has been no steam except on rare dates when there was a visit like that of the NS sponsored NKP #765 over Labor Day this year.
 
Rail Travel Center/Rail Travel Adventures stopped running tours to Steamtown when we were no longer able to count on a predictable schedule and worse, when even though there were operations, we knew there was a high chance they would not be steam-powered. Tour companies which sell to a national market plan their programs 12-18 months in advance. Since the early 2000s Steamtown has rarely put out an operating schedule much earlier than the mid-winter before the pending season. On that basis we simply could not come, as we lacked the time to properly market the trip. And for a non-rail oriented tour operation the problem was even more pronounced.
 
This must change. Steamtown is supposed to interpret the era of steam, and not just show quietly stored power. Regardless of the financial challenges in accomplishing this mission, it is not going to survive if it cannot show its visitors the reality of steam in service. Steam trains must run regularly here. So what is the status of a return to steam operation?
 
Essentially nothing is pending that will restore longer steam trips in the short-term, but by next summer we can hope that at least the weekend Yard Shuttle trips will again be powered by the little Baldwin 0-6-0 shop switcher #26. As I noted in my first part of this series, rangers told ne this engine is virtually ready except for ash pan repairs and final testing. She was test-steamed successfully earlier in the summer of 2015.
 
But like so many Steamtown projects this too never seems to quite finish. It is very sad the #26 was not ready to greet (and run in parallel with) the NKP 2-8-4 “Berkshire” #765 earlier this month and the rangers who were willing to speak to me about this had no idea when the ash-pan work would be done, nor when the final inspections and road tests would occur—nor did they want to be attributed on any of this. In one sense this work by Steamtown standards has gone quickly. #26 went into the shops only three years ago. But three years is a long time for the National Historic Site of Steam to be without the real thing.
 
Next up we are told will be the former Boston and Maine “Pacific” 4-6-2 engine #3713. Steamtown’s Superintendent, Deborah Conway is quoted in the Winter 2015 edition of “Laurel Lines”, the newsletter of the Lackawanna and Wyoming Valley NRHS Chapter, (which is the primary outside fundraiser for the restoration of this engine) as follows. “Ideally we need 4 operating steam locomotives to complete the park’s mission. #3713 is a top priority”. 
 
I do not dispute Ms. Conway’s sincerity on this and she only came to Steamtown in 2014, so she cannot be held accountable for my next observation. But this engine was put forth as “next” to be restored (and the first big USA engine to run since the NKP #759 in the 1970s) over twenty years ago! It is very positive to hear such a firm commitment to running steam trains from the park’s Superintendent.
 
Clearly budget constraints deeply impact Steamtown’s ability to get engines running (as do perhaps it’s adherence to overly complex work rules and a lack of enough staff exclusively devoted to restorations), but this is not likely to get better in the present Federal budgetary era. We know any complete engine rebuild today typically costs over $1,000,000, which would be around 25% of Steamtown’s annual budget. At present even the Steamtown-owned NKP GP9 diesel is inoperable. Thus the use of the (wonderful) borrowed F3s on the Yard Shuttles.
 
This inability to get back-up steam engines ready to run led to Steamtown’s surprise decision to bring in yet another Canadian engine in the late 1980s, the now also dormant CN 2-8-2 #3254, which arrived under its own power in 1987 (in trade for a no longer wanted CPR 4-6-2) from the Gettysburg RR. The much lower cost of keeping this engine in service kept pushing back projects like finishing the B&M #3713. But now it too needs a heavy rebuilding (see the photos in my earlier postings), so indeed work may at last progress at last on #3713.
 
But I saw no one at her side on an admittedly momentary glimpse into the restoration shop. She appears to be at least partially disassembled and certainly is over a year from running. As I also noted earlier her funding was badly impacted by the forced cancellation of the two NS/NKP #765 trips that were to have benefited her restoration fund.
 
Perhaps at least a partial solution is signaled by the example of the visit by NKP #765? There are more engines like this is runnable condition in the United States and which, unlike the #765 have no regular sponsor like the Norfolk Southern. #765 was resident as a sort of “Special Guest” visitor under the overall umbrella of the revived NS 21st Century Steam program. But what if Steamtown put out an RFP to lease/operate a “big” engine that it did not own and did not need to restore? The resulting resident engine(s) could be booked to be present on an annual basis, thus encouraging repeated visits to see “new” power in a future year.
 
This is very common in the United Kingdom, which boasts several dozen regularly operating steam railways. There it is very typical for private owners or clubs to lease their engine(s) to a preservation railway(s) for regular operation. The charterer takes responsibility for routine maintenance.
 
When an engine eventually requires a major overall (like our 15 year/1472 running days rebuild requirement) this remains the responsibility of the owner. But the leasing railway handles day to day maintenance, in exchange for use of the engine(s). There is sufficient demand for engines in good condition in the UK that a brand-new A Class 4-6-2 called the “Tornado” was recently built! Several privately owned locomotive shops operate and specialize in leasing both engines and coaches.
 
This is not as unknown in this country as some readers might believe. Much of the coach fleet used on the Norfolk Southern steam trains is provided by US leasing groups, both commercial operations and through various chapters of the NRHS, as well as luxury private cars from wealthy individual owners. The Strasburg and Tweetsie RR shops specialize in contract engine overhauls, to note just two examples. And there are multiple engines which might be convinced to accept lease/charters to run for a few months (or ideally an entire season) at Steamtown.
 
Next I'll give some examples of engines that might participate. Thanks for the patience with this longer posting and thanks to the reader of Part Two who put up the first-rate photo of CN 4-6-4T #47 at Steamtown. I could not get that close to her.
 
Carl Fowler
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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, September 27, 2015 8:52 PM

Thanks for your efforts and inputs Carl, they're much appreciated, by me at least, and I imagine by quite a few others.

Have you read the comments on your "Part Two?"  There's a lot of negativity over there, which quite frankly suprises me.

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Posted by Railvt on Monday, September 28, 2015 8:16 AM

I have, but want to concentrate on the positive. In particular I do not want to be drawn in to generic bashing  of government employees. 

 

Carl 

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Monday, September 28, 2015 11:00 AM

Good point and direction.

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Posted by Dr D on Monday, September 28, 2015 8:59 PM

I just finished reviewing one of my favorite sites on U-tube - the Pennsylvania Railroad K4 1361 collection.

Haunting sounds of what is a truely Pennsylania experience.  I defy anyone to watch these videos not for the trains but for the people - the bystanders in them.

That haunting PRR K4 pacific 4-6-2 locomotive belongs no where else - its as much a part of the land as the land is of it.

Now I ask you to substitute in those videos - A Canadian National engine or a Baldwin switch engine - and tell me folks would have the same experience.

Neither would I go to the great Rockey Mountains to the Cumbries and Toltec to see some Chinese steam engine or for that matter some South American narrow gauge steamer.

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Because - I am always struck by Pennsylvania! - that the state itself is unique - its landscape - follage and topography - the Pennsylvaina hill country - they are quite Appalachia.  And STEAMTOWN USA, Scrantion PA are found HERE in this often depressed, usually poor, and ethnicly built up of Scott - Irish imigrant populations area - with its own and unique meaning for the word "Gothic" comes to mind.

The area is often found of Celtic haunted hills, valleys, lost places, and lost ways.  Yes, even today by car, the time it takes to travel through and by the back roads of it - yes is FOREVER.

The FRACKING oil and gas boom industry of today has hit some parts of APPALACHIA that have felt the fall from national grace for many years.  Coal mining, once a major industry has been on severe decline - as has the steel making.  Heavy rail transportation was once part of the region - which was at first intensely built throughout - eventually became unprofitable with the advent of the auto.  APPALACHIA - this is where STEAMTOWN, USA resides!

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THIS IS THE EXPERIENCE - "Student pastor came from the local seminary to preach Christmas to an Appalachian community.  He drove into the quiet foggy town with shuttered windows to the cinderblock "church meeting house" with tar paper roof and stove pipe chimney.  After service a thin lady in blue denim asked him 'Pastor you-n are supposed to come for supper at our house!'  As he entered the humble home closed by a door with a rope latch he was greated by dad who put out his hand - howdy!  Luke the son whittling on wood said 'Welcome preacher!'  Sister said Hi.  Eveyone sat down to a plate of beans an bread - bowed and gave thanks.  Pastor asked what Luke he wanted for Christmas - after a long silence - Luke answered 'Preacher - Christmas don't never come here!'

Following week the student pastor took a few Christmas gifts along - Christmas tree the local store decided not to use - one of his dad's old pipes for the father, hat from the closet not used for Luke, baby doll for sis, dress mom had that she didn't wear for mom.  

Invited to supper again after Christmas Sunday service, the young pastor shared his Christmas thoughtfulness.  Dad offered thanks, mom the Christmas dinner, Luke gave pastor the stick he was whittling and sister gave one of her best hugs.

Pastor reflected as he left - they of their poverty - had given him the true meaning of Christmas."

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If you take the time to watch the Pennsy K4 on U-tube - (1) "the train in Tyrone PA," (2) "the train slipping out of Tyrone PA," - it is the "native son" come home from the dead to greet the towns people again.  Observe the child with a bike rides right next to the Pennsy K4 drive wheels as the slip - and the child is caught up in fascination.  Other citizens are walking apace with the slow starting locomotive right at home in Tyrone PA.  Eveyone is transfixed by the obviously lost history - THEIR LOST HISTORY - glad to come home to them again.  They never wanted it to leave and their lives were diminished without the steam train that was always supposed to be there.

STEAMTOWN needs to get in step with the whole Pennsylvania state experience - and not be ashamed of it.  STEAMTOWN needs to have found what Scranton, Altoona, Pittsburgh, Harrisburg and Philiadelphia are all about!  In the hearts of the people - who are not happy their industrail cities have fallen to ruin!  "IF they build it - they will come!" 

Fix the Pennsy K4 - Thats my opinion!

Doc

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Monday, September 28, 2015 9:35 PM

Have to agree with you their doc, Steamtown would be a terrific place for the k 4 to run.

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, September 28, 2015 10:13 PM

Dr D
Fix the Pennsy K4 - Thats my opinion!

 

Who is paying?

 

And there are many that would argue a PRR K4s would be just as out of place in Scranton as a CN Mikado.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, September 29, 2015 7:07 AM

The intern writes like he spent too much time reading L. Beebe.  At any rate, he needs to realize that most people aren't as enthusiastic about the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania as him.  He suggests that a K4 is the core of the railroad experience, I don't share that belief.  The railroad experience also includes ten Pullman-green MU cars racing to Randolph Street on a four-track main line in the morning rush, a pair of heavy GP38-2's pushing a cut over Clearing's hump and an NW2 switching a stell warehouse complex after delivering loads.  The railroad experience is a LOT more than mainline steam.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Railvt on Tuesday, September 29, 2015 8:09 AM

No engines still exist that are original to Scranton except #565 and the corpse of a Lackawanna Camelback which molders in St Louis (another and very sad story), so of course seeing a K4 in steam would be great. 

But the point to this post was to consider currently serviceable engines that might be leased to run at Steamtown. 

The only K4 to run since the 1950s was in the Scranton NPS shops for years, undergoing what proved sadly to be an unsuccessful restoration. This too is another sad tale really not part of the discussion of what could run here. This K4 is now back in the museum in Altoons, facing the need for much more work to even run again at lowered boiler pressure. 

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Posted by Dr D on Tuesday, September 29, 2015 8:33 AM

The Pennsy K4 1361 is a bureacratic disaster - all the funds they spent to get it restored - and except for the new boiler backhead which could STILL be welded on to complete the restoration - the engine just needs competent reassembly!

Seems to me someone is going to have to put it togeather - why not contract Strasburg RR to finish the job right?  In the STEAMTOWN shops no less? - we would all come just to see the overhaul get finished! - yes it should never have left there! - it is the answer to the whole STEAMTOWN steam power drama problem!

Wasn't the point of having the National Park Service run STEAMTOWN to get sufficient funding to be able to do projects like this anyway?  I'm talking about history making projects!  

You want a steam train that will bring folks to Scranton?  Well there it is!  Just sitting there!  And mostly restored to boot - and without an effective home! - and with everyone clamoring for this to happen!  

I miss the lack of common sense here!

If it were an equally important New York Central J-1 hudson 4-6-4 or S-1 niagara 4-8-4 would we want less?

Doc 

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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, September 29, 2015 10:33 AM

Dr D
You want a steam train that will bring folks to Scranton? Well there it is! Just sitting there! And mostly restored to boot - and without an effective home! - and with everyone clamoring for this to happen!

It's in many pieces in at least 3 locations.  I want to see a K4 running as much as the next guy (I wish it was the K4 trust instead of the T1 trust, but that's another subject).  But what about engines that are in one piece and pretty much serviceable with no place to run?  Frisco 1522? PM 1225? Carl Fowler listed other engines.  I just don't see the hang up on the K4.

And while the K4 may bring some people to Scranton, I don't think it is the silver bullet (if there is one).  You're trying to attract people to an industrial historic museum. Unfortunately that subject is widely ignored by current society for whatever reasons.  It does not have the allure that civil war history holds. Steamtown will never be a Gettysburg.

 

 

If you go to Steamtown, it is divided into 3 parts.  History/technology of steam locomotives, history of railroading itself, and a smaller tribute to the DLW.  What is their primary focus?  It's not 100% clear as you visit the museum.  Yes, the museum needs to be more of a interactive discovery center, but the place is 20+ years old.   That is the problem with trying to be an up to date interactive discovery center.  If you don't have the continuous budget to keep upgrading enhancing, you become obsolete (and look the part) very fast.

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Dr D on Thursday, October 1, 2015 10:55 AM

PENNSY K4 FUNDING THRU GRANT REQUEST FUNDS

should be available for historical projects like the Pennsy 1361.  Monies from a number of private foundations, trusts and individuals can be obtained simply by going through the grant request process.

The State of Pennsylvaina has declared the Pennsylvania Railroad K4 Pacific 4-6-2 railroad locomotive - The State Steam Locomotive.

I would think that if the National Park Service was really interested in the STEAMTOWN collection they could lay their hands on large additional funds from the Federal Govenment simply by asking for it.

When I was involved in local government it was very easy to submit for projects though following the traditional grant writing process.  Our government spends millions for such mundane issues as "$100,000 grant for a video game preservation center," "$1,000,000 for a museum at the site of the famous 1960's Woodstock rock concert,"  "$500,000 spent to study how shrimp move on treadmills,"

The National Park Service also is a huge funding source for monies given for private projects throughout the nation.  If you own an antique historic home you may apply for funding through the NPS - this is the same park service that has no money for STEAMTOWN but has millions and millions of dollars to give away to private individuals across the nation for personal historic projects.

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NATIONAL PARK SERVICE - Historic Preservation Grants Division:

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1. Federal Tax Credit Program

The Federal Historic Preservation Tax Incentives program encourages private sector rehabilitation of historic buildings and is one of the nation's most successful and most cost effective community revitilization programs...

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2. State, Tribal, and Local Plans & Grants Division

Since 1968, the National Park Service has provided funding for a variety of grant programs aimed at protecting our Nations most significant historical and cultural sites and out diverse cultural heritage.  More that $1 billlion dollars has been awarded to Federal, State, and local governments, Native American Tribes, non profit organizations and educational institutions for preservation projects in all 50 states and the U.S. Territories.

The Preservation Historic Grants Division is responsible for the administration of the National Parks Services's preservation grant programs:

- State Historic Preservation Office HPF Grants

- Tribal Historic Preservation Office Grants

- Tribal Heritage Grants

- Disaster Recovery Grants

- Underrepresented Community Grants

- Save America's Treasures Grants

- Preserve America Grant Program

- Japanese American Confinment Sites Grants

- Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs)

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3 Historic Preservation Easements:

A preservation easement is a voluntary legal agreement that protects a significant historic, archeological, or cultural resource.  An easement provides assurance to the owner of a historic or cultural property that the properties intrinsic values will be preserved through subsequent ownership.  In addition, the owner may obtain substancial tax benefits.

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NATIONAL TRUST FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION

.....The National Trust for Historic Preservation maintains a funding-centric blog "Show Me The Money: Federal Grant Opportunities at http://nthpgrants.blogspot.com

NATIONAL TRUST PRESERVATION FUNDS

JOHANA FAVROT FUND FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION

CYNTHIA WOODS MITCHELL FUND FOR HISTORIC INTERIORS

PETER H. BRINK LEADERSHIP FUND

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OTHER FEDERALLY-FUNDED SOURCES OF FUNDING & GRANTS FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION PROJECTS

Institute of Museum and Library Services

National Endowment for the Arts

National Endowment for the Humanities

Transportation Alternatives Funds

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PRIVATELY FUNDED GRANTS, SCHOLARSHIPS & FELLOWSHIPS

- American Express Partners in Preservation grant program

- Andrew W. Mellon Foundation

- Charles H. Peterson Fellowship

- E. Geoffery and Elizabeth Thayer Verney Fellowship

- Foundation of the American Institute for Conservation

- .........etc

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GENERAL RESOURCES FOR GRANT & FUNDRAISING SEAKERS

- Catalog For Fedral & Domestic Assistance

- Foundations Center

- Grants.gov

- The Grantsmanship Center - founded in 1972 by Norton J. Kiritz to offer grantsmanship training to nonprofit and government agencies

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With these types of funding available it seems odd to me that the National Park Service at STEAMTOWN has allowed the F. Nelson Blount Collection of steam locomotives under its protection to deteriorate even to the point of lacking paint and rain protection.

Why won't I personally fund STEAMTOWN? - go figure!

Doc 

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, October 1, 2015 12:05 PM

Just because you apply for grants from various and sundry funds and programs doesn't mean that you're going to get the money.  Restoring a K4 is probably near the bottom of the priority list for a grant.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Railvt on Thursday, October 1, 2015 2:44 PM

Dr D's list is helpful. But again I need to emphasize that the idea of this stream was to consider engines currently serviceable that might let Steamtown jump aheod of unfinished work and immediately resume steam mainline operations.

Steamtown's history with the Altoona K4 is not good. It resided in the Steamtown shops for many years. Finger pointing, recrimination, blaming for the disastrous outcome has deeply poisoned the waters regardless of who was really at fault for the fact that this large expenditure of PA funds at the NPS Sranton shops produced only a pile of parts that returned to Altoona in many many pieces.

Truthfully there is no chance this engine is going back to the NPS shops and sadly only a slim chance it will ever run again, at least at full pressure steam!

Grants are an obvious choice for work at Steamtown, but it is also important to remember that the NPS as a Federal agency is in a harder place to compete for those moneys than a private non profit would be. 

The B&M 3713 is actually within striking distance of running again. it has a non profit raising the funds (the Lackawanna and Wyoming Valley NRHS). We need to get this done before Steamtown even thinks about other work.

More importantly Steamtown needs to pursue other engines that can run right now!

Carl Fowler

 

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Posted by U-3-b on Saturday, October 3, 2015 1:17 PM
While people’s intentions are good on this list, you have to understand reality. The NPS cannot apply for its own grants. Those are for other entities and it is congress that told them to do that. There are 411 NPS units and congress gives the NPS a block of money and the people in DC decide how much is going to each park.  If you take money to give to Steamtown then you are denying some other park their money. You are robbing Peter to pay Paul. There is no extra money sitting around for the NPS. 

 

Each park submits proposals for special projects and those go into competition against other park’s projects.  The big emphasis now is on the huge maintenance backlog that is wreaking the parks. It is something like 11 billion dollars and the whole NPS budget is only 2 billion and that is spread out all over the county.  
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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Saturday, October 3, 2015 5:04 PM

Makes sense

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Posted by Dr D on Saturday, October 3, 2015 10:20 PM

FORMAL GRANT REQUESTS -

Only the first half of my list dealt with funds available to NPS and funding through the National Park Service.  The second half of the list concerned other Federal Programs and the final part of the list with private endowments.

You would be shocked how many endowments need worthy projects to commit their funds to, and how much money is available simply for the asking.

FORMAL GRANT PROPOSALS can generate much of this needed funding for a variety of purposes.  GRANTSMANSHIP or the formal process of grant request in a learned skill taught professionally.  

I believe The Pennsylvania State Steam Locomotive PRR K4 1361 could be easily funded through such historical restoration funding.  As undoubtedly could funds for the restoration of NYC 3001 4-8-2 as the only surviving example and the primary exhibit of The National New York Central Railroad Museum and other locomotives and projects also such as funding to finish welding the boiler backhead of N&W 1213 at the Roanoke Virginia Museum.

Local govenments and school systems are often trained in grant request procedures to obtain Federal Govenment funding.  Anyone trained in historical research, historical writing, or professional museum restoration work should know this also know how to do this.  Professional grantsmanship writing is often a full time career.

Google - "grantsmanship" for a full explanation of the fundraising processes.

Writing a grant proposal for say "Funding for the completion of historic restoration of Boston and Maine steam railway locomotive in possession of National Park Service for operation at STEAMTOWN, Scranton PA."  This is a noble project and entirely worthy and within the paramaters of requested benevolant funds.  Similarly is funding requested to preserve steam railway locomotives in possession of STEAMTOWN NATIONAL HISTORIC SITE!

Grant proposals often require enough planning "to envision a process" by which the proposed project could be completed.  Such as, "Funding to be made available to complete restoration of Commonwealth of Pennsylvaina State Steam Locomotive K4 1361 to return to operational service, such work to be completed by Strasburg Railroad shops, York PA, to enable use by the National Park Service in STEAMTOWN Scranton, PA."  This of course would follow Altoona and Strasburg et al. deciding to do such a project.

In the end it just becomes a matter of the search for the right endowment and the completion of the grant funds request process.

Doc

 

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Sunday, October 4, 2015 8:59 AM

Dr, its not as easy as you think. Your competing with thousands of grants.

Let's make it easy, write the check, it be so simple.

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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, October 4, 2015 12:37 PM

Dr D
Why won't I personally fund STEAMTOWN? - go figure!

You make a host of critical remarks about NPS, unsustantiated claims and numerous personal demands, yet you are unwilling to spend a dime in support of steam perservation.  There's a name for that.

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Sunday, October 4, 2015 12:41 PM

My feelings exactly.

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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, October 4, 2015 3:30 PM

In England and Germany, where operating historical steam (and diesel) operations are more common, most of the funding is through non-profit, charitable trusts.   Perhaps their popularity is why they can attract funding and volunteers  For example, the North Yorkshire Moors Railway in England attracts over 350,000 passengers annually.  Steam and railroad history simply is less popular here.

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Posted by zugmann on Sunday, October 4, 2015 10:30 PM

ROBERT WILLISON

Dr, its not as easy as you think. Your competing with thousands of grants.

Let's make it easy, write the check, it be so simple.

 

And a lot of those grants require matching funds, which aren't always easily raised.  And then they can get held in limbo in cases of state/federal budgets not being passed in a timely manner.

 

Just not the magic bullet answer.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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    September 2011
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Posted by MidlandMike on Sunday, October 4, 2015 10:56 PM

As someone else pointed out NPS does not qualify for Federal grants, and other levels of gov't are not going to give the feds money.  Private grants are often small amounts.  NRHS grants are often $1000.  How many grants are you going to need to rehab a steam loco?

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, October 5, 2015 7:33 AM

The intern seems to have developed his enthusiasm for steam during the early days of the restoration of PM 1225.  It is understandable but needs to be tempered with realism.  He needs to grasp the fact that much of the railfan community and the world at large does not share his enthusiasm for steam.  He might get more accomplished if he directed his efforts to the necessities of fund-raising.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    July 2013
  • 51 posts
Posted by RTroy on Monday, July 25, 2016 10:58 PM

At least the one loco is now back in operation; last time I saw it in person it looked worn out; now it looks and sounds brand new with great work and a great paint job.  But I too miss, albeit at a distance, seeing at least a couple road steamers regularly pulling excursions in a variety of directions a substantial distance.

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