can anyone tell me what are the chances of the Catskill Mountain Railway and Delaware & Ulster surviving the aint tourisr stance of NIMBY's in their respecitive areas? Are these two popular tourist railroads on the way out?
The Delaware & Ulster out of Arkville is safe. That is Delaware County and it is run by the county as a tourist attraction. Ulster County are the ones that want to eliminate the Catskill Mountain RR (at least the Kingston part) and make it a hike / bike trail. The part out of Mount Pleasant / Phonecia is likely to stay a tourist railroad, at least at this point.
Any one familiar with the Kingston NY area knows it runs Thur a very urban environment. Don't blame the the locals if they are not happy with a tourist operation literally in thier back yards. Thier is also very nice trolley museum and pt boat museum a few miles away on the rondeau where the old ferry docks where located
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The rails of the former U&D have been in their own corrider for well over 100 years. Where they run from the former Cornell St. Yard to the Kingston Plaza is a mixture of commerical/ residental. Along one little strech, it is in peoples front yard, but seperated by a road from the houses. The railroad has done an excellent job of cleaning up and keeping clean that corrider.
Recently the Catskill Mountain Railroad hosted a Thomas the Tank train for 2 weekend is Kingston, running from the Kingston Plaza out to the Hurley Flats. They had a good attendance and many people were very happy with it, and many came a good distance to see it. The railroad also recieved good news in that they can't be evicted from the property, county owned tracks, before the end of their lease. As a resident of Ulster County, I can't say what the out come is going to be, but I am voting for the railroad.
The issue of rail trail or railroad has done nothing but devide the people of Ulster County on the issue. I thought when we went to the County Executive form of government, there would be more clarity in the issues of the county and a setting of good direction. I no longer believe it.
For my own two cents, I like the rail with trail idea being floated. Seeing the energy and progress that the Catskill Mountain Railroad has made in Kingston, and the thoughts of how nice an attraction they would have when they get to the Ashokan Reservoir, they would have something really good to offer. As far as rail trail alone, I don't think it is going to be the big win that many tout, and where some say the right away only serves a select few now, it is going to be the same thing if it is converted to trail alone. Right now the railroad is doing the work at their own expense, and the maintenance and upkeep of a rail trail alone would be another item on the taxpayers backs. Presently we have a number of trails available, and not complete. I don't see people hiking or biking the grade going up from the Hurley Flats. I also think the preservation of the rails as an opportunity to reuse the rails for railroad purpose if road traffic warrents, thus keeping the roads going into the Catskill Preserve manageable.
Anyhow that is my 2 cents.
As far as the trolley musem goes, we do have that in the Rondout, and I am not sure of the PT Boat Muesum. There are some hulks remaining, but the PT they used on the Rondout Creek has been sold.
The walkway over the Hudson is another 14 miles south of the Rondout going between Highland and Poughkeepsie on the former New Haven Railroad Bridge. I like to take my bike on that.
This summer our family visited Mystic Conn. and while over there visited the railroad ride in Essex Conn. They have quite an operation, and it is something for the Catskill Mountain Group to strive to.
Has anyone considered the possibility of running ski trains?
Kevin
Is the Mary P restaurant still open?
Atlantic and Hibernia Has anyone considered the possibility of running ski trains? Kevin
The big ski area in the Catskills is Hunter, which used to be served by U&D, but the branch is long gone. There is the on line ski area Belleayre Mtn., however, there are a couple of other problems. CMR connects with CSX's west shore line, but the old Weehawken passenger terminal is long gone, and my rail atlas does not show a connection to any NJT lines. Also there is the speed of the lines. As a skier, I would not want to spend all morning riding to the ski area, get just a short time skiing, and then spending all evening getting back to the city.
That said, I believe S&NC ran a ski train (from Saratoga to Gore Mtn) but only ran one trip all season.
the ski train idea would work with a direct trans-Hudson ferryboat connection between Kingston and Poughkeepsie/Metro-North and a Kingston - ski area trip of no more than 2 hours, assuming people would be willing to be at GCT at 7am. The total travel time in each direction cannot be more than 4 hours.
The viability of the operation would be helped by a special car on the select Metro North trains and food and beverage service provided by the hosts, along with a cafe-lounge car on the ski train itself. In other words, make the trip to and from something enjoyable in itself, starting and ending at GCT.
daveklepper the ski train idea would work with a direct trans-Hudson ferryboat connection between Kingston and Poughkeepsie/Metro-North and a Kingston - ski area trip of no more than 2 hours, assuming people would be willing to be at GCT at 7am. The total travel time in each direction cannot be more than 4 hours. The viability of the operation would be helped by a special car on the select Metro North trains and food and beverage service provided by the hosts, along with a cafe-lounge car on the ski train itself. In other words, make the trip to and from something enjoyable in itself, starting and ending at GCT.
A skier would have to get to GCT and schlep his skis/poles/boots thru GCT before 7AM to catch the MNRR train. Then carry skis etc to ferry. Kingston is about 15 miles up river from Poughkeepsie, so add about an hour for the ferry (presuming that the river isn't frozen.) The rail connection to the Kingston Point dock is long gone, so another transfer (2 more ski equipment carries.) Now you are on the CMS ski train. Finally you arrive at the ski area about noon, to get a half day skiing, and then retracing the 5 hour trip back to GCT, and getting home about midnight. A hard sell for skiers.
An alternative might be a Kingston to ski area train for locals and tourist staying in Kingston, for a full day of skiing.
MidlandMike daveklepper the ski train ... total travel time in each direction cannot be more than 4 hours. The viability of the operation would be helped by a special car on the select Metro North trains and food and beverage service provided by the hosts, along with a cafe-lounge car on the ski train itself. In other words, make the trip to and from something enjoyable in itself, starting and ending at GCT. A skier would have to get to GCT and schlep his skis/poles/boots thru GCT before 7AM to catch the MNRR train. Then carry skis etc to ferry. Kingston is about 15 miles up river from Poughkeepsie, so add about an hour for the ferry (presuming that the river isn't frozen.) The rail connection to the Kingston Point dock is long gone, so another transfer (2 more ski equipment carries.) Now you are on the CMS ski train. Finally you arrive at the ski area about noon, to get a half day skiing, and then retracing the 5 hour trip back to GCT, and getting home about midnight. A hard sell for skiers. An alternative might be a Kingston to ski area train for locals and tourist staying in Kingston, for a full day of skiing.
daveklepper the ski train ... total travel time in each direction cannot be more than 4 hours. The viability of the operation would be helped by a special car on the select Metro North trains and food and beverage service provided by the hosts, along with a cafe-lounge car on the ski train itself. In other words, make the trip to and from something enjoyable in itself, starting and ending at GCT.
the ski train ... total travel time in each direction cannot be more than 4 hours.
Even if you had to tinker with River Line scheduling, and make some 'interesting times' connections at the metropolitan end, it ought to be far less involved just to run service up to Kingston over that old West Shore route ... we can speculate where the easiest routes and connections might be now. Plenty of potential skiers in northern New Jersey and adjacent New York state, too. The question then becomes what to do with the West Shore train while it's laying over in the Kingston area.
In my opinion, might be less trouble than arranging the whole ferryboat/shuttle bus thing from scratch...
I think there is little question that the pleasurable aspects of the trip itself have to be a large part of the experience, but that it also has to be fast enough to get you to the 'slopes' in time for a reasonably full day, plus apres-ski, then get you home hassle-free at a reasonable hour...
Sounds pretty neat. Just try and convince CSX that they could squeeze a regularly scheduled passenger service onto the river line.
hhw about an overnight hotel boat with meals and entertainment from New York to Kingston. Can the track be put back to the dock for direct transfer? ditto the return.
daveklepper hhw about an overnight hotel boat with meals and entertainment from New York to Kingston. Can the track be put back to the dock for direct transfer? ditto the return.
Are we still talking about a ski train? The Hudson is subject to freezing in winter, and even if not frozen, it would be pretty raw outside for an after dinner stroll on the deck.
The track still exists from the dock area (not sure if you could land a big ship there still) for about 1.5 mile along the waterfront, and is a trolley museum line. But another 1.5 mile of looping track that climbed steeply out of the valley to downtown Kingston is gone. Go to MyTopo:
www.mytopo.com/maps/
and enter Kingston, NY as a location. The dock was at Kingston Point. The topo map shows when the line was still intact. You can flip back and forth between topo and satellite view to see what track is in place. You will also notice the present day start of the Catskill Mtn RR is also seperated from the CSX line by a parking lot.
Edit: Upon further research I found a report that about 2.4 miles of the line from Kingston Point were intact. Looking at Google Earth, I can see more occasional faint traces of rail and paved over crossings. Than still leaves about a half mile of former ROW in town that has been converted for other uses.
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