Trains.com

Jim Wrinn's preview video w/the Decapod

6485 views
15 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    October 2013
  • 15 posts
Jim Wrinn's preview video w/the Decapod
Posted by CN6218 on Tuesday, August 26, 2014 11:32 AM

   Could anyone tell me about the tender behind the Decapod at the end of the video?

It appears to have some sort of manned cuppola on top.

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • 3,231 posts
Posted by NorthWest on Tuesday, August 26, 2014 5:42 PM

It is a tender "doghouse". A brakeman would sit in it and watch the train.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 26, 2014 6:33 PM

From my understanding they were banned from use in the 1930's, due to a new ruling that deemed them "Unsafe". I suppose that this was because of a lack of communication between the brakemen and locomotive crew. I think the railroads left them on top because it wouldn't hurt to leave them there, and they could be used for extra storage; I'm not sure.

But they certainly aren't out of the ordinary, here at the St. Louis Museum of Transport, we have four locomotives that still sport their "Dog houses". Most of them weren't original though, the railroads put them there, after the loco was delivered.

My question though is why our N&W #2156 has a doghouse, even though it was built in 1942, after the dog house ban was put into effect.

Anyone know of this?

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, August 26, 2014 8:15 PM

Tender "doghouses" being banned?  I don't know, I've never heard of that.  As a matter of fact, I've seen photos of Pennsy steamers that had brakeman "doghouses" clear into the 40's.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,352 posts
Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, August 26, 2014 8:40 PM

S. Connor
My question though is why our N&W #2156 has a doghouse, even though it was built in 1942, after the dog house ban was put into effect.

An even better question might be why the TE-1, finished more than a decade later, has a doghouse...

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • 1,304 posts
Posted by Falcon48 on Tuesday, August 26, 2014 9:52 PM

S. Connor

From my understanding they were banned from use in the 1930's, due to a new ruling that deemed them "Unsafe". I suppose that this was because of a lack of communication between the brakemen and locomotive crew. I think the railroads left them on top because it wouldn't hurt to leave them there, and they could be used for extra storage; I'm not sure.

But they certainly aren't out of the ordinary, here at the St. Louis Museum of Transport, we have four locomotives that still sport their "Dog houses". Most of them weren't original though, the railroads put them there, after the loco was delivered.

My question though is why our N&W #2156 has a doghouse, even though it was built in 1942, after the dog house ban was put into effect.

Anyone know of this?

 I have access to some earlier versions of the steam locomotive rules, and I've never seen anything banning "doghouses".  That doesn't mean there wasn't any such thing, only that I've never seen it.  But there doesn't seem to be any obvious reason for such a ban.  Railroads did many other things in the olden days that wouldn't be permitted today, which are likely far more dangerous than an occupied  "doghouse" could possibly be.  There are films from the 1940's showing railroads switching cars with "groundman" passing signals while standing on the tops of moving cars which are simply terrifying from today's safety standards. That practice wasn't banned until after steam locos were gone. 

  • Member since
    August 2013
  • 3,006 posts
Posted by ACY Tom on Tuesday, August 26, 2014 10:17 PM

This is pure speculation.  Is it possible that the "ban" on tender doghouses was a State law, similar to Ohio's caboose law(s), which banned 4-wheel cabooses in that State and introduced additional regulations regarding the length of cabooses, the operation of pusher locos behind them, etc.?  Indiana had some kind of law requiring an additional caboose (or equivalent car) on freight trains over a specific length.  Seems possible that some State might have had laws regulating the use of doghouses.

As an aside, in the preparation of the forthcoming book on the AC&Y and A&BB railroads, we discovered that the Akron & Barberton Belt retired all of its cabooses when it added doghouses to the tenders of its 0-6-0's in the 1930's.  Eventually the regulators caught on and required the road to buy some cabooses.  So they bought two old N6b cabins from the PRR around 1947.   We wonder how and where the Conductor did his paperwork. 

Sorry if this has strayed off topic, but I thought it was interesting.

Tom

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 24,937 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, August 26, 2014 10:32 PM

ACY

This is pure speculation.  Is it possible that the "ban" on tender doghouses was a State law, similar to Ohio's caboose law(s), which banned 4-wheel cabooses in that State and introduced additional regulations regarding the length of cabooses, the operation of pusher locos behind them, etc.?  Indiana had some kind of law requiring an additional caboose (or equivalent car) on freight trains over a specific length.  Seems possible that some State might have had laws regulating the use of doghouses.

 

Tom

Indiana required a 3rd brakeman on trains larger than 69 cars; however, they found it permissible for the 3rd man to dismount at Vincennes station, rather than the Wabash River 1.5 miles further on which was the state line.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,480 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, August 27, 2014 7:01 AM

Monon had a few rider cars that accomodated the third brakeman required by Indiana's full crew law.  There is a picture of one in Hilton's book on the Monon.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    April 2001
  • From: Roanoke, VA
  • 2,015 posts
Posted by BigJim on Friday, August 29, 2014 7:37 AM

S. Connor

From my understanding they were banned from use in the 1930's, due to a new ruling that deemed them "Unsafe". I suppose that this was because of a lack of communication between the brakemen and locomotive crew. I think the railroads left them on top because it wouldn't hurt to leave them there, and they could be used for extra storage; I'm not sure.

But they certainly aren't out of the ordinary, here at the St. Louis Museum of Transport, we have four locomotives that still sport their "Dog houses". Most of them weren't original though, the railroads put them there, after the loco was delivered.

My question though is why our N&W #2156 has a doghouse, even though it was built in 1942, after the dog house ban was put into effect.

Anyone know of this?


Well, local rules can vary from area to area, BUT, this was not true on the N&W!!! Me thinks someone has pulled the wool over your eyes.

Doghouses were built so that the headend brakeman would have a place to ride close to where he was needed. Steam locomotive cabs could be small in size with no room for a third man to "SAFELY" sit down. If you have ever been in the cab of N&W #1218, you would clearly understand what I mean.* So, the doghouse on 2156's tender was in fact original.

Doghouses on the N&W WERE very much original on freight locomotive tenders. They were built on tenders up to the very end, witness the tender on "Jawn Henry". Although not original because they were passenger locomotives, doghouses were installed on some Class J tenders when the J's were downgraded to freight service (at THE very end). The doghouse from 611's tender is still stored, although I don't know where.

*I found it comical when reading Kip Farrington's book about riding in locomotive cabs across the country that N&W locos didn't get glowing ratings because the poor boy didn't have a place to sit down. Boo Hoo Hoo Wink

.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 29, 2014 8:26 AM

Very interesting, could the ban have been limited to certain railroads?

I was just reporting what I have heard, although the ban may have been limited to the Frisco line, my reason being that throughout all the research I've done, I have only seen two Frisco engines with the doghouse, and both of them are the decapods (#1630 and #1631), both built before 1920. Anybody seen any other Frisco steamers with them?

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, August 29, 2014 5:17 PM

"Scuse me for asking gents, but just where did you find the video with Mr. Wrinn and the Decapod?  I've looked through all the areas on this site I thought it might be and can't find it.  Love to see it.

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • 30 posts
Posted by fordv10 on Saturday, August 30, 2014 8:58 AM

It is in the Video Preview section.

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, August 30, 2014 12:18 PM

Ah, in the preview of the come-and-gone September issue!  I didn't think to look there.  Thanks!

PS: Good preview but not enough Decapod.

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • 64 posts
Posted by F.S. Adams on Monday, September 8, 2014 6:38 PM

The doghouse was to provide a place for the head or in some cases, swing brakeman. I do not think crew communication had anything to do with them being discontinued. If that was a factor would the conductor have been on the rear end of the train? Rather I think it was because the employee riding in the doghouse had to eat smoke and gas all the way resulting in many if not most electing the cab even if it meant standing.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • 2,741 posts
Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Tuesday, September 9, 2014 11:29 AM

F.S. Adams

Rather I think it was because the employee riding in the doghouse had to eat smoke and gas all the way resulting in many if not most electing the cab even if it meant standing.

So the isolated crew member could consume snacks, have a cigarette, and pass body fumes without disturbing other members of the crew, and this was a problem?Smile, Wink & Grin

I actually thought about that in connection with that Italian coal-fired cab forward from the early 20th century.  Italy is mountainous, and they had the firebox and cab forward, firing from a side bunker, to protect the engine crew from engine smoke in tunnels, but the trailing water tender had a doghouse on the back, which meant the "guard" (as they call the brakeman outside the U.S.) had to breathe the fumes?

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy