I've always been intrigued by the 3-cylinder concept on steam locomotives, and the nearest one I can get to is at the St. Louis Museum of Transportation, I've been to see the #12 a few times, but can't get to it easily, as it is in the museum's restoration area (not normally open to visitors). I know basic information on it, such as fuel type (coal), wheel arrangement (0-8-0), driver size (53 in.), year built (1926), and builder (ALCO, Schenectady works). I know more than this, but that's just the basics. I'd like some more info. on the #12, like original builders drawings, specifications, and even reports on how well it operated. I know stuff like that is hard to come by, but it would be a big help if I could get stuff like that.
Was this a onw-iff experimental or part of a series?
An ALCO historical society if one exists would be a good place to start looking. They might have what you need. ALCO was heavy into three-cylinder locomotives for a while.
Did a little checking, try these folks.
www.alcoheritagemuseum.org.
For a pretty good dissertation on the rise and fall of three cylinder steam locomotives try and find a copy of George Drury's "Guide To North American Steam Locomotives." Drury devoted a section of the book to the same.
It's a Kalmbach book, but unfortunately it's out of print. You'll probably have to haunt the local used bookstores and area train shows to find a copy, but it's worth looking for.
No, you can't have mine!
What I can't figure out is why anyone would bother building a three cylinder 0-8-0 switch engine. Hardly a main-line, high speed locomotive, which was supposed to be the primary application of the three cylinder concept.
steamlocomotive.com has a few specs on a nifty chart. Go under the Steam Types tab and click 3 Cylinder Steam.
Why 3-cyl 0-8-0's?
Could it have been a demo'-loco' for the concept?
Could it have been an attempt to get a skosh more tractive effort for the locomotive wheel arrangement and weight? (sukosih=skosh=bit...Korean police action {War} slang.)
Could it have been an attempt to get smoother power, thus reducing driving wheel-spin for engines commonly working near max. tonnage? Transfer? Pull-down, double-over train make-up?
I haven't the foggiest idee. (my Uncle Tommy's pronunciation, Buffalo NY grown, and retired there.)
When it comes to 3-cylinder 0-8-0's, I tend to be quite partial to the IHB U-4a. I believe that IHB's monsters were used primarily for heavy transfers and as hump pushers.
Firelock76What I can't figure out is why anyone would bother building a three cylinder 0-8-0 switch engine. Hardly a main-line, high speed locomotive, which was supposed to be the primary application of the three cylinder concept
Three cylinders give a more even turning effort to the drivers comapred to a two cylinder engine. Allows a lower factor of adhesion without increasing the tendency to slip. Useful for moving heavy cuts of cars when the engine weight or size is limited. The low speed and limited mileage of a switch or transfer engine minimizes the extra maintenance of the inside cylinder and the extra valve gear. This extra maintenance cost was an objection to three cylinder locomotives in road service.
In my mind, a good match of engineering to application.
Makes good sense!
Why three cylinders on an 8-coupled switcher?
Alco even shipped three cylinder Pacifics to Japan in the 1920s.
Speaking of Japan, sukoshi, meaning a small amount or quantity, is a perfectly valid Japanese word that goes back far before Meiji, never mind the Korean war (which, actually, is still going on...) During the Vietnam War a basic misunderstanding led to the first F-5 pilots naming their planes, and themselves, Sukoshi Tigers - literally, a small amount of tiger! The word they wanted was chiisai, meaning physically small.
Chuck
Say, where did S. Connor go? He started all this!
Get back here and start participating, this thread is YOUR fault!
Sorry, haven't checked this for a while.
I'm guessing that the #12 was only experimental for the Alton and Southern railroad, because it was the only three cylinder that they had.
I have the builders photo, it's even shown on St. Louis MOT's website.
Three cylinder 0-8-0's were designed to have a lot of power. The Alton and Southern #12 hauled a hefty 60,600 lbs. tractive effort. VERY POWERFUL, especially for an 0-8-0, much less the #12, which is actually quite short in my opinion.
Thanks for the help, but I found that months ago, sorry. What I'm really after is the Builders drawings, and if they still exist, the blueprints.
Thanks! I'll have to get a copy!
Thank you to everyone who has replied to this! The #12 is my favorite steam locomotive, and I want to learn as much about it as possible. I've only seen #12 once in person, as it is hidden in the museum's restoration area, which is closed to the public. I wish I could get to it, but I can't! Any ideas on how to get back there (other than sneaking) are much appreciated. Thanks for the help everyone!
ACYI presume you've checked the web sites for the Alco Historical & Technical Society and Alco Historic Photos. The latter indicates that they have erecting drawings, but is not specific about the extent of their collection. Also, the Museum of Transport, the current owners of the loco, may have obtained construction and maintenance records when they acquired the locomotive. Maybe you've already checked all of these sources.
I'll try to get an appointment at their archives sometime... Who know? Maybe they'll have what I'm looking for!
ACYSix 3-cylinder 0-8-0's were built for the NYNH&H a short timer after delivery of no. 12. The 1930 Locomotive Cyclopedia indicates these NH engines had dimensions almost identical to those of no. 12. Judging by the builder's photos, it appears that the two engines were nearly carbon copies of one another, except for some obvious differences in appliances, piping, headlight location, etc. Of course, the tenders were significantly different. Maybe the information can be obtained from the New Haven historical group, and adapted appropriately for your purposes.
Very interesting! I'll have to look into it, unfortunately, the new haven 3-cylinder does not exist any more. Worth looking into though, I think!
eagle1030Conner, if you wanna see 12, just ask an employee. Employees can either take you to it themselves or give you permission to go look at it. At least that's what the tour guide did last week.
Be sure to get official permission. When I was there a little over ten years ago, I asked a worker there if it would be OK to enter that area. He said, "Sure, come in and look around." A few minutes later, I was accosted by another one who told me sternly that I was not supposed to be there.
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
I have before, however, it comes to weather the employee decide to let me back there or not. I talked to a volunteer there, he said that some people would, and some people would not let me back. I have found, however, that most of the volunteers are weary of taking people back there, as the curator of collection is not too happy about that being done. This is why I've only been been back there once.
Paul of Covington eagle1030Conner, if you wanna see 12, just ask an employee. Employees can either take you to it themselves or give you permission to go look at it. At least that's what the tour guide did last week. Be sure to get official permission. When I was there a little over ten years ago, I asked a worker there if it would be OK to enter that area. He said, "Sure, come in and look around." A few minutes later, I was accosted by another one who told me sternly that I was not supposed to be there.
Yes, I have seen this happen too several people. You can see the restoration area from the observation platform next to the UP mainline that runs by the museum. Problem is that the museum doesn't have signs designating the area as off-limits and many people wander back there unaware of where they are. As of today I have seen 9 people go back there and be confronted. Only traffic cones mark the area boundaries, and said traffic cones are literally everywhere at the museum, they don't appear to mark an area is what I'm saying.
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