Help identifying steam engine make/model

[Late2Game]

This locomotive was used on a small Canadian Railway but operated by Grand Trunk Western. Engine number is 865. Can anyone help me identify who the likely manufacturer was? It looks like a 4-4-0. I've spent the day trying to ID it but can't find anything with the same oil lamp, rear wheel placement and bell placement.

http://elginhistoricalsociety.ca/ehs/sites/default/files/styles/rail-gal/public/Wabash%20bridge.jpg

Thanks,

Shawn

[tatans]

This info from "Collectors item 3"   Standard type 4-4-0,  classSA,  number 285,  builder: CPR Co. DeLorimier Works, Montreal, built in 1883, serial no. 1001, cylinders:17''x24'',  62'' drivers, pressure150 lbs, weight:112,800 lbs.  this is a very old engine called an 8 wheeler, big oil lamp out front, diamond stack, bell behind stack and before the steam dome, this ran on GTW, designed by Francis R.F. Brown.

This is the only 4-4-0 the CPR roster.

This may not be your locomotive 865.

[Late2Game]

Wow. That's an amazing amount of detail. Thank you!

Our office is moving into an old MCRR Roundhouse in London, Ontario. Any idea what kind of locomotive would have been common on their smaller runs (London & Port Stanley) back in the mid-1880s?

[dhlotz]

If I'm reading the lettering on the tender correctly, this locomotive belonged to the Grand Trunk Railway (GTR), a large operation in eastern canada that also owned a number of subsidiaries.   This line  eventually merged into the Canadian National, and is not to be confused with the Grand Trunk Western or Canadian Pacific.  the photo is the Grand Trunk - Wabash trestle in St Thomas Ontario (looks like it came from th Elgin County Ontario Historical Society) so all the "evidence" fits.  Also, the first few box cars in the photo are lettered for the Wabash, St. Louis and Pacific (later the Wabash)  which was a U.S. railroad that also operated across Ontariio;  after mergers the name started being used in 1879, so we know the photo was taken after that.   So if you google "Grand Trunk Railway locomotive roster" you'll find a site http://precnr.info/  with pre-CNR rosters.  I can't really see the loco number clearly from the photo, but if its #865 it would be a 4-4-0 bult in 1870 by the Rhode island Loco works and later acquired by the GTR.  Hope this helps.     Don

[dhlotz]

Moving into an 1887 roundhouse sounds really cool, I heard the structure was being rebuilt but I didn't know for what purpose.  I'm definitely a fan of re purposing historic structures rather than knocking them down and building a modern monstrosity.

 

That said, I'm definitely not a Canadian railway expert, though I've been an enthusiast for a long time and sometimes can find stuff in my own archives or get a hit on the Internet, maybe I know just enough to be "dangerous" as they say.

 

So it is possible to make some educated guesses, and there are some references that may contribute, but if you haven't already I'd suggest you start with the folks at the Elgin county Railway Museum over in St Thomas  http://ecrm5700.org/  .  They likely have people with institutional knowledge or historical photos that may help.  Take a look at this video they produced with other local historical groups that offers a really good background of the railways in the area  

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcoT5B9uTug .

 

As to your question, an article about the L & PS in Canadian Rail magazine http://www.exporail.org/can_rail/Canadian%20Rail_no519_2007.pdf  indicates that beginning in 1882 the L & PS was operated by the Grand Trunk Ry, not the Michigan Central, which came in later.  Apparently the L & PS had quite a few operators over the years, and I don't know whether those operators used their own roundhouse facilities or those of the L & PS.  One thing seems certain, the L & PS would have been steam operated since it didn't electrify until 1915. 

 

By the early-mid 1870's, by far the most popular locomotive on the continent was the "American" 4-4-0, by some estimates up to 85% of all locomotives.  There were other types in service of course, such as 0-6-0's, and 2-6-0's for freight.  By the mid-1880's the bigger roads were starting to buy 2-8-0's, but there were still plenty of 4-4-0's around, and as bigger engines came in, these would have been downgraded to local service.  Looking at the Canadian Rail magazine article on the L & PS, there were still plenty of 4-4-0s being used in the L & PS area in 1915.  But I don't want to start speculating what would power have been used on specific lines around London, that's a question for the local experts.

 

Good luck with your research.

 

Don