Oh hi Overmod
deep in the frost , too ?
I added some sonds of steam in summer time when the weather was fine ...
Regards
= J =
By the way, since everyone talks about cold, and also steamrs, found a video of 18 316, 'out in the cold'. Here it is :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTjVtcajgMg
On the other hand, found also some vignettes of 18 201, wich is known to be the world's fastest steam engine in operational condition (although in this movie I doubt that it would be doing more than 140 Kmhr, because of the cars being hauled, former DDR's 'Deutsche Reischbahn')
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpe8I2ZAOW8
Hope everyone is not very frosted, because I know not everyone can be as lucky as me (my country & town must be one of the very few places in europe with temperatures of a little more than 10 celsius)
Kind regards
M
I accept the correction on the speed of the uphill climb of the steam-hauled special on the Gothard. Still. I hope someday a sfeam special, probably doubl-headed, with the right power-to-load ratio is run up the Gothard with speed to match the regular trains, and I hope I get to either watch or ride it! And I hope thay have Juniatha check the drain valves and valve motion in general to insure all 100% square.
Mario ,
it's nothing but sad to see what happens with the IVh Pacific . I would never have thought of it , yet concluding from all I heard and see - again in this video - the only thing that can be said is , clearly this locomotive is beyond scope of skills of preservers . Just the idea of running a compound engine without cylinder cladding is mindboggling .. and that in winter weather ! looks like they wanted to avoid condensing water in cylinders by rather having ice ?
18 201 is likely doing ~120 km/h rather than 140 if the video is 1:1 speed as I saw it and that might just have been due to line speed limit . Yet , as I understand there is a policy not to extend the engine beyond pretty easy going because of these one-off-a-kind wheels , rods , cylinders and I think that's wise enough - as my saying goes , this engine doesn't have to prove anything today . Although back when visiting the 150 years of Austrian railways with my parents I was only 11 and thus lack the more technical details , I still memorize 18 201 running 160 km/h on the return to Vienna in summer 1987 : without fuss , absolutely easy , absolutely steady , like on asking it could have been done regularly - and I remember the old Saxon driver answering questions in Vienna so placidly and with a wise smile in his round 'full moon' face - Reinhard Rindelhardt , as I was told much later .
Juniatha
Dave ,
>> And I hope thay have Juniatha check the drain valves ..<<
Oh , Jeezus - I hope not ! Quite certainly I'm not going to try and tell any of them anything . Why , years ago I was visiting the crowded footplate of one preserved standard type engine the number of which I have just presently forgotten and I couldn't help remarking to the driver about the glass being 1/1 up with water ( supposed to be around 1/2 glass ) and he 'explained' that's the way it's supposed to be ; a bit later then , in my typical American optimism I *still* remarked upon the irregular pounding of their compound air pump ( the DR double shaft compound pump tended to 'kick back' when valve control had become badly worn ) and was told that , too , was supposed to be so . Needless to say , when starting that not-too-heavy train with cylinder cocks kept firmly cocks closed there was a sooty-black rain of water coming down on spectators and the exhaust beats were muffled low and blurred - cocks opened only after all these deplorable things had already happened and the engine was about wading her way out this watery departure .
However : that's the way it had to be - and so I said : not for me !
Steam to climb Gotthard electric pace :
Very hard to do , Dave , look : even if two Mikes add up to 5000 ihp and euphemistically we'd take that for the output ( b-t-w what would be equivalent to steam ihp output in an electric ? ) of an elderly Re 4/4 II ( really , the series II first built in 1964 have 4700 kW already , i e 6300 hp , rounded ) , then we have an electric of 80 t [metric] against the two Mikes of some 200 t extra mass all by their own incl tenders ! Impact of this disadvantage , unfortunately increases as the train mass proper is being cut down : for instance on a twelve coaches train , some 600 t , that extra mass represents some 33 % increase of total train mass ex adhesion mass ; on a four coaches train of some 200 t it means plain doubling the towed mass ex adhesion mass ! In other words , with a light 4 coaches train to perform like one Re 4/4 II up-hill a steep grading like the Gotthard’s , the two Mikes would need to put up twice the power total at drawbar as that single electric – by far way-out impossible ! Now , what about that twelve coaches train ? Since remarkable enough starting t.e. of the Re 4/4 II at 255 kN yet is not up to the Mikes combined t.e. of 2 x 80 t adhesion mass ( t.e. with sound mechanical condition provided ! ) , there is some advantage for the steam doubleheader at starting ; however as t.e. of each the Mikes progressively deflate with speed rising , with the ~ 200 t extra locomotive non-adhesion mass performance succumbs pretty quickly towards a point where power output / power demand coefficient falls below that of the Re 4/4 II on the same train .
So , three Mikes on four coaches ? Well , someone would install an Allison V12 in a 1970s Camaro … no , let’s not be kidding …
The Austrian way to do it back in the 80s was to let venerable old Gölsdorf 310.23 walk up the Semmering leisurely at an amazing pace .. amazing until you heard the ‘electric colleague’ at the back end humming by , shoving hard pressing buffers all-through the train - *g* !
edit :
text specified in some wordings
Juniatha Oh , Jeezus - I hope not ! Quite certainly I'm not going to try and tell any of them anything . Why , years ago I was visiting the crowded footplate of one preserved standard type engine the number of which I have just presently forgotten and I couldn't help remarking to the driver about the glass being 1/1 up with water ( supposed to be around 1/2 glass ) and he 'explained' that's the way it's supposed to be ; a bit later then , in my typical American optimism I *still* remarked upon the irregular pounding of their compound air pump ( the DR double shaft compound pump tended to 'kick back' when valve control had become badly worn ) and was told that , too , was supposed to be so . Needless to say , when starting that not-too-heavy train with cylinder cocks kept firmly cocks closed there was a sooty-black rain of water coming down on spectators and the exhaust beats were muffled low and blurred - cocks opened only after all these deplorable things had already happened and the engine was about wading her way out this watery departure . However : that's the way it had to be - and so I said : not for me !
Great anecdote and good advice!
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Hi Juniatha!
I wasn't sure of what you were talking about concerning the video of 18 316, I was so captivated by the "Christmas Card" image of steam in the snow.
So I went full-screen and HOLY JEEZ! NOW I see! Running that locomotive without the sheet metal covers on the cylinder and piston units, and rusting them up as well!
You're good. At least your eyes are better than mine. Do yourself a favor, don't get old!
Wayne
PS: Interesting story of how those amateurs were running, or attempting to run that steam locomotive. I can't help but think if there was an old-time official of the old Reichsbahn around someone would have gotten a good butt-kicking! "Dummkopfen!!! Was ist los mit sie?"
Juniatha b-t-w what would be equivalent to steam ihp output in an electric ?
b-t-w what would be equivalent to steam ihp output in an electric ?
The power at the current collectors (pantograph, third rail shoe or trolley wheel/shoe)?
- Erik
Correct, electric power input from the third rail or catenary. But nothing wrong with double-headed 2-8-2's OR 4-8-2's racing up Gothard with only four cars. Why not? Price the tickets appropriately and run daily service for the mobs that want to ride!
With the Base Tunnel opening soon, it is assumed that only local passenger trains will use the switchbacks. So, there may be capacity for steam!
I guess after some months of a daily service interested folk will become so thinned you could advertise cab rides on light engine runs . I think that would also deal with the up-hill steam speed aspect once and for all !
Btw , I'd like a ticket to (cab-)ride , then - *gee*
There may be people, yes there will be people, who move to Switaerland just to ride six days a week forever.
(They may have to return to the country of citizenship to have their tourist visas renewed every six months or whatever the Swiss require.)
I'd doubt it -
yes , pondering it I really I doubt it .
add.:
However -
if we could get Corinna* interested in switching from horse breeding to iron horses ..
Nontheless ..
regards
* Corinna who ?
Well , Corinna married with Michele Scumacceroni ..
( who-the-heck is .. -> Michael Schumacher , at the height of his F1 career driving for Ferrari , winning championship seven times in total )
Maybe Dave's on to something the Swiss Tourist Board should utilize as a catch phrase:
"Switzerland! Come for the chocolate, stay for the trains!"
Switzerland is already a railfan heaven, for electric railfans and streetcar fans particularly. Too add steam, well WOW!!!is
A popular joke among Israelis: A group from his synagogue visited a Reform Rabbi who retired to Jerusalem. They asked: Rabbi, you played golf on Saturday afternoon, ate all kinds of food, drove on Saturdya, what's with this change? Now you keep Kosher, observe an Orthodox Sabbath, wear a yarmulke, what happened? The former Reform Rabbi answered: "Well, if I had moved to Switzerland, I would have become an expert at skiing. Now we will have to change that to railfanning.
Just watched the videos and the comments. I had the same question about the cylinder cocks that "J" had and thought that maybe the engines were operating with saturated steam which might have put water in the cylinders each stroke instead of superheated steam? With the cocks open even on open field running that was my first thought. As one who watched many trips of N&W 611 several thoughts came to mind about these locos pictured
1. Cylinder cocks ?
2. Valve gear ?
3. no proper synchronizing ?
4. Large amounts of smoke at all times to make one wonder quality of coal and / or not complete burning. No self respecting " N&W J " would do that ?
5. Appeared that the signal system used inductors much like the ATS system in the USA. They appeared to be both in center of track and on left side ? Both steamers appeared to have pickups mounted near the trailing engine truck on left side but maybe one engine on right side?
blue streak 1 5. Appeared that the signal system used inductors much like the ATS system in the USA. They appeared to be both in center of track and on left side ? Both steamers appeared to have pickups mounted near the trailing engine truck on left side but maybe one engine on right side?
Maybe those are the antennae for the local Integra Signum cab signal system, wich is not much different from a classic US ATS. Probably its use is mandatory, therefore it was installed in order to make the circulation of the engines compatible with the local rules
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