Trains.com

A big Niagara in Europe (preserved & operational)

3006 views
11 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 464 posts
A big Niagara in Europe (preserved & operational)
Posted by Mario_v on Wednesday, August 28, 2013 8:58 AM

Actually locally it was always called 'Confederación' (the name given to it it's not relative, since it's huge). With the exception of Andr´Chapelon's 242A1 prototype, the 10 big engines of 242F2000 series built by Maquinistas Terrestre y Maritima (MTM) of Barcelona, to RENFE (to commemorate the builder's centennial) where the most powerfull 'serial' team engines in Europe. The first one, after leaving the factory was tested with a dynamometer car behind and reached 4426 HP and a top speed of 93 Mph (track could bear any more). After a first ressurection in the late 80s and a sudden stop, it recently got a second life in wich some minor adaptations (middle wheels had to be 'flangeled out' in order to respect 'modern' track specifications, complete boiler overhaul), it's now ready to operate again, but only sporadicaly will leave it's new house at Madrid's Delicias museum.

watch?v=r5lIR5NBxeo 

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Allen, TX
  • 1,320 posts
Posted by cefinkjr on Tuesday, September 3, 2013 7:53 PM

Nice try.  That may be a 4-8-4 (OK, a 242 on the east side of the pond) but a Niagara, it's not.

Still, many thanks for posting this video.  The 242F2009 is a very pretty machine.  Very glad to see her running.  Can you provide a little more of her history and specifications? 

The Beyer-Garratts were very interesting, too.  This is the first time I've seen one in motion.

Again, many many thanks for posting this video.

Chuck
Allen, TX

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, September 3, 2013 8:09 PM

Mario, that is one magnificent locomotive, really "Delicias"  to look at.  Looks like Spanish steel is good for a lot more than swords!

Hey, I even liked those two diesels with their almost New Jersey Central paint schemes!

Oh, tell me those diesels were broken and the "Confederacion"  was hauling them to the nearest repair shop.

I'll tell you, go anywhere in the world and there's no-one who doesn't like steam.  Maybe that's the key to world peace?  I don't know.  Could be.

Thanks for posting!

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • 3,231 posts
Posted by NorthWest on Tuesday, September 3, 2013 8:16 PM

cefinkjr
That may be a 4-8-4 (OK, a 242 on the east side of the pond) but a Niagara, it's not.

That depends on your opinion...if you consider that the NYC called them Niagara's because they didn't like the Northern name, like Mohawk instead of Mountain, it is,...but yes, it isn't a NYC 4-8-4.

Names can be confusing! Remember that Hudson vs. Baltic argument we had? Embarrassed

Sincerely,

NW

 

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, September 3, 2013 8:38 PM

Well, the National de Mexico called their 4-8-4's  "Niagras", however note the different spelling.

Hey, "south of the border" it wouldn't make sense to call them "Northerns".

Railroads in the American South wouldn't call them "Northerns" either but for quite different reasons.  Another story.

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Allen, TX
  • 1,320 posts
Posted by cefinkjr on Tuesday, September 3, 2013 8:41 PM

NorthWest

cefinkjr
That may be a 4-8-4 (OK, a 242 on the east side of the pond) but a Niagara, it's not.

That depends on your opinion...if you consider that the NYC called them Niagara's because they didn't like the Northern name, like Mohawk instead of Mountain, it is,...but yes, it isn't a NYC 4-8-4.

Did any wheel arrangement have more names than the 4-8-4?  I was about to list the ones I knew and ask how many others there were.  Before posting though, I did a Bing search on "4-8-4 names" and, to my surprise, found this list at http://modeltrains.about.com/od/railroads/tp/Steam-Locomotive-Classes.htm:

  • Northern: Union Pacific and various other railroads
  • Big Apple: Central of Georgia RR
  • Confederation: Canadian National Railway
  • Confederation: Grand Trunk Western RR
  • Dixie: Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis Railway
  • General, Governor, or Statesman: Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac RR
  • Greenbrier: Chesapeake & Ohio Railway
  • GS, Golden State or General Service: Southern Pacific RR
  • Niagara: New York Central RR
  • Niagara:Ferrocarriles Nacionales de Mexico
  • Pocono: Delaware, Lackawanna & Western RR
  • Potomac: Western Maryland Railway
  • Western: Denver & Rio Grande Western RR
  • Wyoming: Lehigh Valley RR

I had heard of and forgotten most of these but the last four on this list were new to me.  Also, weren't SP's also called Daylights after the trains they hauled?  Anybody have any others to add to the list?

Chuck
Allen, TX

  • Member since
    July 2013
  • 4 posts
Posted by Big John on Tuesday, September 3, 2013 8:54 PM

    No Diesel is as much fun to watch as a live steamer.  So many moving parts flashing in the sun ! 

And no air horn ever sounds so sweet as a steam whistle.  One engine on the old Illinois Central must -have had a custom chime.  The engineer's trademark was his "Whip-poor-will".  Such a sweet memory. 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 464 posts
Posted by Mario_v on Wednesday, September 4, 2013 10:47 AM

cefinkjr

Nice try.  That may be a 4-8-4 (OK, a 242 on the east side of the pond) but a Niagara, it's not.

Still, many thanks for posting this video.  The 242F2009 is a very pretty machine.  Very glad to see her running.  Can you provide a little more of her history and specifications? 

The Beyer-Garratts were very interesting, too.  This is the first time I've seen one in motion.

Again, many many thanks for posting this video.

Wikipedia provides some info about it's tech data : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-8-4#Spain

Despite being operational (sometime ago there were talks for installing an air compressor, the engine has only vacuum brakes, not very well suited for 'high speed' running), it's been some years since it has entered Madrid's Delicias Museum, and from the part of ADIF (the entity that manages Spain's rail infrastructure), there seems to be a no steam rule. even the 'Tren de la Fresa', a touristic train that operates between MAdrid and Aranjuez is now ether diesel or electric powered, and it would be a nice candidate for this engine, but in my opinion a too light of a train for such power and speed (normal indicated power is 2700 HP and it's maximum permitted speed is 125 Kmhr)

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, September 10, 2013 7:09 PM

Big John

    No Diesel is as much fun to watch as a live steamer.  So many moving parts flashing in the sun ! 

And no air horn ever sounds so sweet as a steam whistle.  One engine on the old Illinois Central must -have had a custom chime.  The engineer's trademark was his "Whip-poor-will".  Such a sweet memory. 

You must be thinking of Casey Jones and his legendary "Whip-poor-will" whistle, and yes, it was custom made by  (I believe)  Casey himself.  I believe it's still in existance, the Jones family had it for the longest time, it may be in a museum now. 

People who heard it said Casey could make that whistle "say its prayers"  he was so good at "quilling".

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 7:10 AM

Big John

    No Diesel is as much fun to watch as a live steamer.  So many moving parts flashing in the sun ! 

And no air horn ever sounds so sweet as a steam whistle.  One engine on the old Illinois Central must -have had a custom chime.  The engineer's trademark was his "Whip-poor-will".  Such a sweet memory. 

Beg to differ on both counts.  A diesel may be less of a visual attraction but it still has much to offer to the other senses.

You apparently have never heard a Nathan of Leslie horn in the distance on a quiet summer night or even the single-note horn on a switcher over the squeal of the retarders on Clearing's hump.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 5:24 PM

I would always give the nod to a Westinghouse Cross Compound's thump click over the dubba-dubba of a Roots blower.

Aren't turbo-generators neat?  They whine noisily and you know they're running. You have to be looking at a dial in the cab on a diesel to know its batteries are getting charged.

You never know when a diesel is about to reverse direction unless you are part of the crew.  On a steamer, just watch the expansion link's sliding block and the attached radius arm (or equivalent on other forms of valve gear).

And then there's all that steam leakage and dripping hot water.  Gotta love a device that bleeds because it loves its work.

Stick out tongue

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 7:27 PM

Well, this is one steam freak who has to admit he kinda likes the sound of a diesel horn coming from somewhere off in the distance.  The CSX James River Line runs about 2-3 miles from the "Fortress Firelock"  and it's cool to hear the horn blowing for the crossings.  I refuse to call it a whistle.  If it's a very quiet night you can even hear the rumble of the coal cars.

Reminds me of when I was growing up in Northern New Jersey and could hear the horns on the Eries RS-2 and 3's running on the Pascack Valley Line.  Lady Firestorm could hear the diesel horns on the Erie Main Line from her side of town.

However, NOTHING beats the etherial, other-worldly sound of a steam whistle.  Sounds like the past, present, and future all rolled into one.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy