In the story on the 45 hour D. V. Scotty AT&SF LA-Chi. trip, I was struck by the number of engine changes, with each going less than 200 miles. As I remember, at the end of steam operation with modern steam, a 4-6-4 from Chicago to La Junta and a singe 4-8-4 from La Junta to LA were often the case. Can someone recall the steps in going from short to long-distance operation on the Snte Fe?
And was there ever a case, even just a test, of one steamer going all the way between Chi. and LA?
Did the UP ever run steam Ogden - Omaha without change?
SFe did one trip on Number 8 LA to Chicago, with a 3460-class in 1937 or 1938. Supposedly KC to LA via Amarillo was a regular thru run after 1940 or so.
Any data on the one trip available? Met the schedule? Where refueled? etc.
It was an "official" test run when the 4-6-4 was new-- probably with the dynamometer car, and with pretty complete timings that are given in Farrington's book. As I recall it arrived Chicago something less than an hour late; don't recall the cause of the delay, but the book probably explains.
"SFe"?
tdmidget "SFe"?
Train 8 was scheduled 53 hr 20 min LA to Chicago in December 1937; the 3461 left LA two minutes late and arrived Chicago 22 minutes late. They hit a car at Azusa (think they still had the Pasadena helper when they hit the car, so could've been worse) and were 70 min late out of San Bernardino; they arrived KC 1 minute late and left 35 min late.
It only mentions fuel at Hackberry, Albuquerque, Dodge City, Newton and Shopton.
daveklepper In the story on the 45 hour D. V. Scotty AT&SF LA-Chi. trip, I was struck by the number of engine changes, with each going less than 200 miles. As I remember, at the end of steam operation with modern steam, a 4-6-4 from Chicago to La Junta and a singe 4-8-4 from La Junta to LA were often the case.
In the story on the 45 hour D. V. Scotty AT&SF LA-Chi. trip, I was struck by the number of engine changes, with each going less than 200 miles. As I remember, at the end of steam operation with modern steam, a 4-6-4 from Chicago to La Junta and a singe 4-8-4 from La Junta to LA were often the case.
The Milwaukee was running some of their engines from Chicago to Harlowton in the mid-30's.
IIRC, a large percentage of American steam in 1906 was still using Stephenson valve gear with slide valves, whereas almost all locomotives built in the 1930's had piston valves with more modern valve gear. Lubricants were likely to be much better in the 1930's than the 1900's, steel was somewhat improved and I would guess that boiler water chemistry was better understood.
- Erik
I suspect the single change at La Junta came into effect with the Ripley power, the modern 4-6-4's and 4-8-4's, and that possibly four locomotives were required just before these came on line, with mostly 4-6-2's doing the job. Anyone know?
And what about the UP?
I know a lot of through NYC trains still swapped at Collingwood or Buffalo, even though the Century ran through (with a Niagra at the end of steam) Harmon - Chicago. Ditto PRR at Crestline. the latter usualy including the Broadway.
daveklepper I suspect the single change at La Junta came into effect with the Ripley power, the modern 4-6-4's and 4-8-4's, and that possibly four locomotives were required just before these came on line, with mostly 4-6-2's doing the job. Anyone know? And what about the UP? I know a lot of through NYC trains still swapped at Collingwood or Buffalo, even though the Century ran through (with a Niagra at the end of steam) Harmon - Chicago. Ditto PRR at Crestline. the latter usualy including the Broadway.
Did the PRR change all the steam locomotives on the Harrisburg to Chicago passenger runs at Crestline? Also, after the PRR bought diesel electrics for its passenger trains, did it immediately run them through to Chicago from Harrisburg or did it change them out somewhere along the route as was the assumed practice with steam locomotives?
Dave,
IIRC, UP had a regular passenger run with a 7000 class 4-8-2, but could have been an FEF 4-8-4 that ran, I believe 978 mi with just fuel/water stops and crew changes, but not power changes. I don't recall the train name/# or A/B points. I believe it was mentioned in one of Kratville's books. I will try to find the book and get better info and cite the source, when I get back home(I am a truck driver) and post this weekend.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
Just for the record, the ultimate long-distance steam runs according to Loco Profile #20 "The American 4-8-4" by Brian Reed:
Milwaukee S-2, Minneapolis - Harlowton 914 miles. N.Y.C. Niagara, Harmon - Chicago, 928 miles. N.P. A-3 to A-5, Twin Cities - Livingston, 1008 miles. U.P. FEFs, Omaha - Salt Lake City, 1026 miles. U.P. FEFs, Omaha - Huntingdon OR, 1394 miles. Santa Fe 3765/3776/2900, Los Angeles - Newton, 1590 miles. Santa Fe 3765/3776/2900, Kansas City - Los Angeles, 1791 miles. This list is of course limited to long-distance runs with 4-8-4s. But, as they represented the pinnacle of U.S. steam in terms of reliability & mileage-between-repairs on passenger trains, I doubt these distances were bettered by any other wheel arrangement. By the way, Brian Reed's Loco Profile #20 is a fine example of how to be very informative & succinct at the same time. This doesn't answer this thread's question of how railroads got to a position where they could achieve such distances between loco servicing. That probably requires a long & involved answer, which I don't have. Regards Dave
Santa Fe 3765/3776/2900, Kansas City - Los Angeles, 1791 miles.
Longer distances with less servicing? The simple answer is the application of roller bearings in all places where they could be applied such as axles, drive rods, etc., and automatic forced lubrication. Both made a world of difference on modern steam engines. A prime example is the Norfolk and Western Class J, which ( I believe) could run up to 15,000 miles per month without major shopping.
Firelock76 Longer distances with less servicing? The simple answer is the application of roller bearings in all places where they could be applied such as axles, drive rods, etc., and automatic forced lubrication. Both made a world of difference on modern steam engines. A prime example is the Norfolk and Western Class J, which ( I believe) could run up to 15,000 miles per month without major shopping.
You forgetting the Largest one for alot of the RR's WW2 at the time Forced the RR's to push Power Harder than they would have in a Normal Enviroment and when it ended they found out that hey THIS WORKS and we are going to keep doing it.
That is why the ATSF ran such Long Distances was they HAD to hauling War Time Traffic. Even the FT's they had were used and Abused in WW2. FT 100 the First one delivered in 6 Years as it was made in 39 by 45 had close to 500K miles on her. They were running everything they could as Hard as they could Engines that would have been Scrapped were Overhauled and on the Mains.
Regarding the diesel question. Almost all mainline NY Chicago trains ran with their diesels through to endpoints. PRR: Harrisburg - Chicago, NYC Harmon - Chicago. Rode the Lake Cities about four or five months before train-off, with sleeper to YOungstown and Diner to Huntington. The E-units ran through Hoboken - Chicago. There probably were occasional exceptions.
Engineer and Firemen qualification to run on other divisions was something that had to be dealt with also. The crew was required to know each division they ran day and night. When the engineer signed on he also signed for the steed he would be piloting over the rails. If the passenger run through the division took only 4 hours he and his loco would go back the other way. Pool servicing of locos was a start to multiple division runs where only the crew was exchanged.
As far as the PRR running Harrisburg to Chicago during steam they had to swap power at Crestline. Remember that Lines East was a separate company than Lines West. Same owners and president but different operating headquarters. It wasn't until diesels came in mass and into the sixties that they dropped the Lines East and West.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
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