Anyone besides me becoming a little nervous about the mechanical problems 844 has been plagued with since last fall? How serious is the "flat driver" issue that caused her to be replaced by the E9's in Texas this week? I wouldn't want to see the end of service of this magnificent machine within my lifetime.
davews Anyone besides me becoming a little nervous about the mechanical problems 844 has been plagued with since last fall? How serious is the "flat driver" issue that caused her to be replaced by the E9's in Texas this week? I wouldn't want to see the end of service of this magnificent machine within my lifetime.
Steam requires much more mechanical experience than diesels to deal with the every day running and maintenance. Steve Lee had a lot of steam experience and the replacement crews need time to get up to speed on all issues. This set back is serious since the drivers will have to be trued up again if they were flat spotted. This normally requires the drivers to be removed and sent to a shop that has the size of lath large enought to turn the set of drivers. It is very costly today if this has to be done. The SP used to return the drivers on the locomotive so that might be an option if that equipment is available.
I would hope the crew is able to true up the drivers without removing them by the method that the SP used to use since removing the drivers for the work would side line the 844 for a long period of time.
CZ
IIRC Cheynne in the Roundhouse has a on loco Driver truer for the Steam Program in the Roundhouse. They also have a Wheel Lathe there if they need it Plus 838 is there to provide a Spare Wheel if needed. So 844 should be up and running in a few weeks once she gets home.
Steam locomotives have always had mechanical problems, big and little, and it was perhaps the principal reason for their swift replacement by diesels. Not to say that diesels were completely reliable either, before anyone jumps on me! What was a minor problem in the steam era is the same problem today, except without the extensive support facilities to quickly fix it. No spare parts locally to replace a damaged one, or drop tables and wheel lathes capable of dealing with 80" drivers in every major terminal. Folks running steam in the 21st century are necessarily masters of improvisation, but the work-arounds do take more time. Meanwhile there is a train needed to be run.
Only the drivers were flat spotted?
Did somebody hook it up so far that he reversed it at speed and didn't realize the problem, cause and solution?
Yes a mechanical problem could have caused a lock-up...say a power- reverse malfunction, valve gear breakage.
Which brings up the SP "truing" without removal. There was/is a wheel-peeler at Roseville. One axle/wheel set could be trued at a time; what power turned the wheels against the blades, I dunno. Consider unless the siderods lie on the shop floor all the other eight-coupled flat spotted drivers have to turn to "true"any one of them. What powers and how is it transmitted to the drivers if they're not removed from the engine?
The 844 has a excellent reputation for reliability and completes it's schedules and appearances nearly every time. I don't think this setback is that big of a deal when you compare the thousands of miles it travels every year.
I have never heard of a steam locomotives wheels being turned on a lathe to remove flat spots and I have been around steam locomotives my entire life. If a steam locomotive has flat spots the "tires" are heated up and removed and new ones put on. This is by far the quickest, easiest, and probably most cost effective way to fix the flat spots on the 844 wheels.
Considering that tires of that size would be a custom job for the supplier, I would opine that it's going to be a while before 844 hits the road again.
They have spare tires in Cheyenne
Thomas 9011 The 844 has a excellent reputation for reliability and completes it's schedules and appearances nearly every time. I don't think this setback is that big of a deal when you compare the thousands of miles it travels every year. I have never heard of a steam locomotives wheels being turned on a lathe to remove flat spots and I have been around steam locomotives my entire life. If a steam locomotive has flat spots the "tires" are heated up and removed and new ones put on. This is by far the quickest, easiest, and probably most cost effective way to fix the flat spots on the 844 wheels.
The large lathes that the wheel sets were turned in were standard in all back shops during the steam era. I watched a set of wheels being turned at Centralia by the IC and it is amazing to see a lathe with a driver set installed being turned. The SP did true up the wheels on the locomotives using a special cutting tool mounted on the brake shoe hangers and each locomotive was pulled by a cable a certain distance to true up the drivers when they were damaged, but the SP used lathes also for the first cuttings when installing new tires on the drivers.
Steam locomotives required a lot of heavy maintenance that is extremely hard to do without the proper equipment.
Great info, CZ, and it makes perfect sense!
Crandell
One thing that is in place on most carriers in today's world of railroading that didn't exist in the steam era is the WILD (Wheel Impact Load Detector). These detectors measures the level of impact a flat wheel imparts to the rail - there are various levels of impact that register, from very minor to a level that requires the car (or locomotive) that has the flat wheel to be set out at the first available location and have a new wheel set put in place. The carriers have become very protective of their welded rail and a severe flat wheel's ability to break the rail.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
So is there any truth to the rumor that the crew lost control of the helper locomotive, which continued to push ahead with full power for two miles against the intentions of the crew?
I have read many conflicting reports but it seems that they may have accidentally run a red signal and put the train into emergency. There is a new video on you tube that shows the 844 along with the helper diesel locomotive sliding all of it's wheels including the helper locomotive. This would rule out the possibility of the helper locomotive pushing anything with it's wheels locked up and sliding.
I know from working for the railroad in the past that it is important to "know your territory". Knowing your territory is knowing all the signals, sidings, and speeds of the rails to and from your destination. One of the problems of the 844 is traveling on rails it normally does not operate on and not knowing where the signals are located. They will often have a engineer riding with them from the state they are visiting just to give them heads up and information on where they are going.
I read today that the 844 is heading to the Georgetown railroad in Georgetown, TX to have repairs made.
I know they make a special kind of brake shoe that grinds the wheels down removing the flat spots but I have only seen them used once and they make a lot of sparks when moving. I don't know if that is a option with the 844.
Thomas 9011 I have read many conflicting reports but it seems that they may have accidentally run a red signal and put the train into emergency. There is a new video on you tube that shows the 844 along with the helper diesel locomotive sliding all of it's wheels including the helper locomotive. This would rule out the possibility of the helper locomotive pushing anything with it's wheels locked up and sliding.
Can you post that new video? I have seen the video of the brakes set on the helper locomotive with its thottle open.
What evidence is there that they accidentally ran a red signal?
Every roundouse I ever worked in had one track that was very rusty. Metal filings were evident and in some places were 3-4 inches deep. This was the Lidgerwood track, it is not possible to control a steam locomotive at low speeds therefore a cable was attached to the locomotive and the Lidgerwood winch slowly pulled the locomotive along the track with wheel cutters on the offending driver tire. Granted in most cases the cutting shoes were only used for sharp flanges, flatspots are a different story...
Randy
I think that the Strasburg Railroad has wheel lathes large enough for the engine. Is this right?
The Lehigh Valley Railroad, the Route of the Black Diamond Express, John Wilkes and Maple Leaf.
-Jake, modeling the Barclay, Towanda & Susquehanna.
Here is the video of the wheels sliding on the diesel locomotive. You have to slow it way down but it is around the 1.27 mark http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9ukJHWUuhQ&feature=youtu.be&hd=1
In even more bad news one of the cars in the 844 consist was partially destroyed at the repair facility in Texas. Details are unknown at this time. Here is a link to a photo. http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2990059.
This is starting to seem like sabotage to me.
Not the first time a sideswipe of equipment has occurred - and not the last.
activating link
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2990059
There is also a video of crew grinding down the flat spots at Mt Pleasant http://tinyurl.com/7zhkgwc
Tourist Railroads
TheRailroadNation
Not suprised that the 844 is seeing more problems. It has been running 68 years straight nonstop (except for rebuilds), so I would expect the engine to have a problem or two.
Even if there were a larger problem, I'm sure that the 838 would be willing to donate another part for the 844.
By the time Uncle Pete is done with the 838 for parts all that will be left of 838 will be a Builders Plate and a few bolts and Castings.
edbenton By the time Uncle Pete is done with the 838 for parts all that will be left of 838 will be a Builders Plate and a few bolts and Castings.
You're not kidding! The 838 is sitting in what is left of the old roundhouse in Cheyenne. When I saw her last year about all that was left was the boiler and the drivers. Strangely enough it does still have both headlights and the smoke box door. Regrettably the builders plates are long gone. Her tender is sitting out in the yard in the dirt with no wheels.
The 844 wheels have been removed and sent out for work. Here is a link for recent photos. Someone will have to activate the link because I don't know how to do it. http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.396335887054997.93870.100000357660135&type=3&l=318937ee8b#!/media/set/?set=a.396335887054997.93870.100000357660135&type=3&l=318937ee8b
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.396335887054997.93870.100000357660135&type=3&l=318937ee8b#!/media/set/?set=a.396335887054997.93870.100000357660135&type=3&l=318937ee8b
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