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Was there ever?

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  • Member since
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Was there ever?
Posted by Raymond Leggs on Saturday, January 9, 2010 2:59 PM

Was there ever a Steamer with a Daimond stack and a Headlight mounted on the Center od the smokebox?

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Northview, Missouri
  • 409 posts
Posted by JamesP on Saturday, January 9, 2010 9:37 PM

Well, since nobody else has answered, I have to say that I don't remember seeing that combination.  A quick review of some of my train books didn't bring anything to the surface either.  I won't go as far as to say that such an animal doesn't exist, but it would be rare indeed.  This gives me a good excuse to stay inside during this cold weather and reread all of my train books!

 A diamond stack was typically used on early woodburning locomotives, or later coalburners that were in service where extra protection was needed from the threat of fire, such as logging.  At any rate, the early locomotives tended to have a much smaller boiler diameter than later locomotives, and the early locomotives used oil lamps that were very large.  The top smokebox mounting worked well, as it allowed 1) room for such large headlamps, 2) a high mounting position that minimized shadows better than low mounted headlights and 3) gave unimpeded smokebox door access, which was needed to clean out the boiler tubes (flues), ash out of the smokebox and access to clean screens in the smokebox (when used).  As steam locomotives got bigger, coal was typically the fuel of choice, since it has a much higher energy density (btu's per pound) than wood and because coal became a more economical fuel choice than wood for a number of reasons.  Also, coal tended to put out less live embers out the stack than wood, reducing the need for complicated diamond stacks with their spark arresting characteristics.  By the time the electric headlight came into general use, coal was king and the diamond stack wasn't being applied to the majority of new locomotives.  As locomotives grew even larger, smokebox door mounted became common because 1) feedwater heaters or other appliances were sometimes mounted on the top of the smokebox, 2) the smokebox door mounting gave easier access for workers maintaining the headlight (bulb replacement/lens cleaning) and 3) the size of the headlight was now small in relation to the size of the smokebox door, meaning that it wasn't in the way of opening the door like it would have been with a small boiler / large oil headlight.  A headlight mounted on the smokebox door of a large locomotive is just as high off the rails (if not higher) than a headlight mounted on top of the smokebox of an early woodburner.  Finally, oil buring steam engines have virtually no need for a diamond stack, further reducing the number of locomotives with that type of stack. 

All this adds up to a divergence of technology between the diamond stack and a smokebox center mounted headlight.  Now to look through all those books... James

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  • From: Southwest US
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Posted by tomikawaTT on Saturday, January 9, 2010 10:54 PM

Since the vaporizing-burner oil headlights were rather massive pieces of equipment, they required solid and substantial mountings.  The swinging door of a smokebox could be considered neither of the above, especially on the narrow-boilered locomotives of the mid 19th century.  Also, since the smokebox door was opened rather frequently, anything big, awkward and/or fragile mounted thereon would be inviting damage.  Mister Murphy hadn't been identified then, but his laws were still operative.

Many more modern European and elsewhere locomotives had a door-locking mechanism centered on the smokebox door, which was secured by internal latches, not the external dogs common to US practice.  Mounting a headlight on such a door would have interfered with the locking mechanism.  In Japan, at least, the top of the smokebox headlight location was 100% standard.

Chuck

  • Member since
    December 2007
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Posted by Raymond Leggs on Monday, January 11, 2010 1:39 PM

I do know that some logging Mallets and shays  had baloon/diamond  stacks and electric lights but then agian the main source of fuel for these locos was wood because of the enviroment they operated

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