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Hello all 4-8-4 enthusiasts! Feltonhill: Thank you for the list, looked at steamlocomotive.com with a glance, these are more classes than expected. ( twelve 4-8-4 for freight service? Must be the dirty dozen [:)]) Wallyworld: the ACE is a nightmare, neither fish nor flesh. Paul: Great references you list here. the statement... On freight service:  Not much - mainly:  "A theoretical defect was the small proportion - usually 58 to 62 % - of the adhesion weight to the total loco weight.  Thus the 4-8-4 was not effective for drag freight; . . . the extra power at speed permitted substantial accelerations of passenger and freight trains of any weight the locomotive could start; is really negliable in my point of view. Any x-8-x of same adhesive weight will pull same. Someone may think a 2-8-2 for example is better drag-suited, because its smaller (and more "effective"), therefore? But horsepower pulls the trains, and the 4-8-4 could carry bigger boilers. Anyway, never load a steamlocomotive of any type towards its lower boiler capabilities, as effectiness goes hell. For drag, use diesels or electrics ;-) On 100+ MPH speeds: maybe some 4-8-4 were handicapped by their gear or so. I think for most US railroads 100mph was good enough, as I wrote before, they pulled pretty heavy trains over long distances. Have a look at <A href="http://files.asme.org/ASMEORG/Communities/History/Landmarks/5609.pdf" mce_href="http://files.asme.org/ASMEORG/Communities/History/Landmarks/5609.pdf">http://files.asme.org/ASMEORG/Communities/History/Landmarks/5609.pdf</A> : there it is stated, that the N&W J drivers and rods were balanced up to 140mph, and for sure, the SP's UP's, C&O's, ATFS's or Niagaras ones were equally good. Just Imagine what a 4-8-4 could do with a light 5-7 car train and a big coffee pot next to the engineer. On NYC Niagara's HP: - From "TABLE VIII - OUTPUTS OF N.Y.C. NIAGARA 4-8-4 LOCOS" [ pg. 191, top]: Class & Road No.  Wheel Dia.  Pressure  Max. i.h.p. Max d.b.h.p. Act. Start T.E. S-1a  6000*            79               290      6800 @ 85*   5290 @ 62*          ? S-1b  6023            75               275      6600 @ 77   5100 @ 58     65,800 S-1b  6023            79               275      6610 @ 85   5050 @ 62     62,500 S-2a  5500            79               275      6625 @ 90   5000 @ 65     62,500 * - On Selkirk test plant [this one only]. Fellows,I get suspicious, a test-plant result again in the first row, but could the Niagara really produce so much IHP? Just think about it, the Big Boy's cylinder horspower was 6680~40mph. Nevertheless, if the dbhp is correct, these engines (in addition the N&W J, have a look at my link above) produced same horsepower as a Class A or Big Boy at speeds ~60mph, to put some perspective here. Kind regards lars
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