This is a good cause as the EMD F40 does have a very significant history in North American passenger railroading.
Just my opinion, but one factor that "may" slow things down is that right now there are still a number of powered F40s in existence that are running in service. So there's no major panic yet that the F40 is in danger of becoming extinct. Grand Canyon and Alasaka RR are examples of current F40 owners.
However, it's wise to stay on top of this. Years back there were calls for preserving the E7, and of course all but one were eventually scrapped.
Ham, have you joined the National Railway Historical Society?
http://www.nrhs.com/
There's likely chapters in your state. I was a member back in the 80s and was part of the group that sponsered Operation Life Saver here in Florida, which resulted in a well publicized vist from the Chessie 614. The NRHS is nationally recognized and does have "some" influence with the railroad industry along the lines of preserving equipment. Talk with a chapter's leaders and get their advice.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
North Carolina Transportation Museum has one.
http://www.nctrans.org/
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
AntonioFP45 wrote: This is a good cause as the EMD F40 does have a very significant history in North American passenger railroading.Just my opinion, but one factor that "may" slow things down is that right now there are still a number of powered F40s in existence that are running in service. So there's no major panic yet that the F40 is in danger of becoming extinct. Grand Canyon and Alasaka RR are examples of current F40 owners. However, it's wise to stay on top of this. Years back there were calls for preserving the E7, and of course all but one were eventually scrapped. Ham, have you joined the National Railway Historical Society? http://www.nrhs.com/There's likely chapters in your state. I was a member back in the 80s and was part of the group that sponsered Operation Life Saver here in Florida, which resulted in a well publicized vist from the Chessie 614. The NRHS is nationally recognized and does have "some" influence with the railroad industry along the lines of preserving equipment. Talk with a chapter's leaders and get their advice.
The Alaska Railroad F40s were converted by the railroad to non powered cab cars.
Greetings all,
Just saw the NC Transportation Museum's. (Saturday before Labor Day) Looks rough. Rust coming through paint in several locations. It definitely does not get the love the Steam, E, and F units get. Looks like it spends all its time outside.
Later,
Bob
Modeling in N scale: Rock Island freight and passenger, with a touch of the following; Wabash Cannon Ball, CB&Q passenger, and ATSF freight and passenger. I played in Peoria (Heights).
Bob,
Which number is it?
Also, did you ask the museum reps what the plans were for its restoration. Happens often that transportation related museums receive vehicles needing restoration but because funds are usually limited it could be months or even a few years before significant progress is made.
Ham,
That's a good info list. The color coding for the status of the units is a good touch.
Do you know if #258 is actually running?
Is there any truth to the specualtion that the Tennessee Central Valley museum acquired the F40 after they decided to get rid of the 3 beautiful E-units that had, unfortunately, become maintenance headaches due to the twin prime movers per E unit?
The Save the F40PH project is now accepting donations through PayPal. You can donate by clicking on "Donate" on the temporary website http://ham549.googlepages.com/howtohelp On that note I am looking to open a more permanent and professional website using Train Web. If anybodey wants to get involved in this they can e-mail me or join the Face Book group "Save the F40PH" If this project falls through all money raised will go to the NRHS. Feel free to ask questions or leave comments.
-Rowan C. de la Barre
AntonioFP45 wrote: Bob,Which number is it?Also, did you ask the museum reps what the plans were for its restoration. Happens often that transportation related museums receive vehicles needing restoration but because funds are usually limited it could be months or even a few years before significant progress is made.
The unit at the North Carolina Transportation Museum is a low priority. If it is ever restored it will be comestic restoration only. The engine is siezed up.
Thanks Bob.
Hopefully the museum officials would reconsider the future restoration status to fully powered as there are still EMD 645 series components available on the market, although likely at heart thumping prices.
AntonioFP45 wrote: Thanks Bob.Hopefully the museum officials would reconsider the future restoration status to fully powered as there are still EMD 645 series components available on the market, although likely at heart thumping prices.
My understanding is that the exhaust were left uncovered when Amtrak had it in storage. Water got into the cylinders and have rusted things together. It would require a total engine rebuild.
dekemd wrote: AntonioFP45 wrote: Thanks Bob.Hopefully the museum officials would reconsider the future restoration status to fully powered as there are still EMD 645 series components available on the market, although likely at heart thumping prices. My understanding is that the exhaust were left uncovered when Amtrak had it in storage. Water got into the cylinders and have rusted things together. It would require a total engine rebuild.
OUCH! That's an expensive problem. So typical of Amtrak. A friend of mine that worked for Amtrak told me that so often maintenance was deferred on the F40s back when they were in service before the Genesis unit arrived.
It's a very expensive problem. According to the head diesel mechanic at the museum it will never be operational again unless someone donates a LARGE sum of money specifically for that purpose. There are plans for a cosmetic restoration though, which it desparately needs. The paint is very bad and the cab interior doesn't look much better.
Get some stuff about Metra's F40PHs'. I dont think there being scrapped just yet but I have heard rumors that they are getting the new Metra (MP36's) Paint scheme.
Colin
Hang tough, Ham! Rescuing, preserving and restoring ANY piece of railroad history is a daunting task. 'Way back in 1981, I had the idea of rescuing and cosmetically restoring the SP steam locomotive on display in our town -- it had been allowed to deteriorate badly and another similar engine had recently been cut up because it looked almost as bad as the one I was concerned about! Got a few friends together and, very long story made short, we ended up restoring it to operating condition and leased it to ourselves for service on a shortline we started. A few suggestions to help you on the journey you'll alternately curse and kiss...
Document, document, document! Get every piece of historical info and paper (copies or originals) you can lay your mitts on. Take pictures. Take LOTS of pictures. We ended up getting a local high school photography student to do nothing but shoot every day we were working on the engine and everything we did. Those pix come in handy for your newsletter (see below), for public outreach efforts, and displays.
A non-profit public education corporation is one of the best things you can invest your time putting together. Your best bet is to form your own for a variety of legal and interpersonal issues which will become abundantly clear later on. Check with the local attorney and bank in town. Get people interested in what you're doing and make them WANT to help put together your non-profit. The library should be a good source for how to form your own non-profit organization. Ooops -- my age is showing. Yeah -- you can check the Internet, too, but live persons in your home town is what you want to start getting involved. Heck -- we never had much money during our entire restoration project, but we always managed to get a local merchant or somebody with a few bucks to get excited about what we were doing and we got it done. In the end, over the 12-year restoration period we spent about 65 grand, but the net value of work done on the engine and tender came to well over half a million bucks! Once you get your non-profit status, more people and businesses are much more likely to want to help with services and cash because they will have a tax deduction.
Network. Get the community involved in what you're doing. We quickly added to our original gang of four by "letting" others help. Many of them had no interest in railroads, but they liked the idea they were helping to preserve history, or getting a chance to do a specific construction or repair job, or just work with a group of people committed to having fun. Don't overlook any opportunity to let others know about "their" engine (or caboose or whatever). Very early on (before we even attained our non-profit status) we put together a quarterly "newsletter" that we offered to those who committed to supporting us. In the beginning, it was just a brief overview of the work done to date and an outline of our future plans. Later, we had regular articles covering specifics of the project (Think "In the Cab" for work going on there, and "From the Ground Up" for the latest on the carbody repairs... you get the idea?), and a list of SPECIFIC needs, both material and monetary. Even without our non-profit status, you'd be surprised how many people would ask us if we could use some old chain link fencing or if we wanted an old gauge they found in their uncle's attic. Use the newsletter as a fundraising tool, a public relations tool, a recruitment tool, and as historical documentation of your work. Put together a slide show (oops -- there's my age showing again!) - er, PowerPoint show, with pictures of the work to date, and some related railroad pix to get the crowds excited about your project. Keep your presentation to about 15 or 20 minutes, have one of your more charming members put together an engaging narrative with an awe-inspiring plea for money and assistance, then get in touch with the local service clubs (Rotary, Kiwanis, etc.) and get yourself booked as a program. A great way to network and get some exposure.
Find a way. Early in our group's history we were offered a Porter locomotive and a caboose. Both had been in a fire in a farmer's barn and he just wanted them out of his way. We were pretty creative in finding ways how NOT to accept both items. We were too small a group, we didn't have anyplace to store the equipment, we didn't have any money to move it, aw, heck -- why did we even really want it? An early 1900's 0-4-0 Porter and one of a few existng Sacramento Northern outside-braced cupola cabooses. We let 'em go to another museum. Wow. What we could have done, if only we'd found a way. A short time later when we needed a little more room to work on the locomotive, the landowner allowed us to expand our area considerably to a size which would have easily accomodated the Porter and the caboose, plus more. A local trucking company offered to help us (free of charge) to move the locomotive to a better location on the property and asked if we had any other pieces of equipment we needed moved. Dang! Find a way, Ham -- don't let anything slip away from you in this project. By the way -- the SN caboose had its steel framework cut down to the deck and it's now a "vista-flat" on a little one-mile tourist railroad, and the Porter sits at the museum that got it -- still in the same condition it was received.
As a sub-category to the above: don't ever be afraid to ask. When we were getting close to running condition, we hesitated to ask the two local railroads in town if we could operate on their tracks or on a spur or siding. Fortunately, hotter heads prevailed and, although we ended up having to form our own railroad and buy a branch line, the railroad helped us along the way and we were up and running soon thereafter. When we needed a compressor because the one we had was getting pretty tired and all the air tools were pretty hard to operate by blowing in the other end of the hose, we asked one fo the local farm supply places if we could buy one on time. They GAVE one to us.
And finally, don't try to eat the elephant all at once. Don't let the enormity of your undertaking overwhelm you. I don't know how old you are, what you do for a living, or where you are located, but none of that should matter when it comes to what you're doing. Eat this elephant one bite at a time and it will be much easier to handle. Okay, okay -- truth be told, I lost count of the number of times during our restoration project that I snuck up into the partially assembled cab and crouched on the floor (the seat boxes and floor panels were out) with my arm and head out the cab window, imagining what it would be like to someday, somehow... But I digress. Just keep at it and don't measure your progress only by what can be seen -- a lot of the work you do will probably never be seen or appreciated by the average observer, but YOU'LL know, and that should be what this is all about.
I'll be looking for updates from you about the project. Let me (and everyone else) know when you're accepting sponsoring memberships. Stay safe!
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Thanks Magoon I am going to see if I can pass out flyers at the next Amherst railway society meeting. There are no F40PH’s near by unforentanely to get photos of though, and the last time I made a slide show showing the F40PH’s getting scraped I got yelled at for using other peoples photos (I did give them credit and I did it under the fair use law.) But that got a bunch of people mad at me so I took it down. One of my main problem is that none of the organizations like the Trolley museum I volunteer for seem interested in even letting me store one on there tracks. Hopefully I can find some people that could help me at the Amherst railway society.
I have made up a new website http://www.trainweb.com/f40ph and have typed up a flier to pass out at rail fan meetings and other railroad events.Here is how the flier I typed up reads:"The EMD F40PH locomotive played a huge part in American railroad history and set the standard for passenger locomotive. But now they are becoming fewer and fewer as more fall to scrappers. It is the gole of the Save the F40PH project to preserve these historic locomotives for future generations to enjoy. In order for this project to become successful it needs people like you to help out and join. Together we can help raise awareness of this cause, start a 501(c)3, and raise funds to rescue these locomotives. Although a few have already been saved none of them are located here in New England. "You don't have to donate money to help, you could for example help out with the website and fliers (my spelling and grammar skills are extremely weak if you couldn't tell) there are many other ways you could help with this project because as I have come to realize I cannot do this alone.
To become a 501(c)(3) "of the IRC. A not-for-profit (i.e., nonprofit) organization must be organized and operated exclusively for one or more exempt purposes.organized—A 501(c)(3) organization must be organized as a corporation, trust, or unincorporated association. An organization’s organizing documents"You can read all this and more at -http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p4220.pdfI would have to also first do a SS-4 fourm (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fss4.pdf) HOW ARE YOU SUPOST TO PUT DOWN AN EIN NUMBER IN THE TOP RIGHT CORNER WHEN YOU ARE APPLYING FOR ONE IN THE FIRST PLACE! then after that I would need to do a Form 1023 (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1023.pdf) Maybe I should be trying to rase money for a tax attorney before I start raseing money for a F40PH . The only other way is this "As an alternative to applying for exemption, an organization may obtain many of the benefits of 501(c)(3) status by affiliating with an existing charity that acts as its agent. It is important to note that the existing charity must be given full control and authority over the program." but no orginazation around Masschutes seems to want or be able to help.
Hello All ;
I do agree in 100% with hthe intention of saving an engine of this series, that has played and stillplays a big roleinnowadays US passenger railroads. Just for the record, the E7, wich was EMDs most produced passenger diesel has only one survivor, and it it not in operational condition. There are even more survivor Alco PAs than E7s, with 2 in operational condition.
That picture of the scrap pile is almost depressing :*(
NJT has i believe 17 F40s and theyre still running strong. I dont know of any plans to retire them in the next couple of years.
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