The SP’s 4460 GS-6 was delivered July31, 1943 and was vacated from the roster in 58’ and donated to the Transportation Museum in St. Louis in 59’. Now this locomotive has only had 15 years of being used and I remember reading some place that when it was vacated it was in need of class 2 boiler work.
Most of the pic’s I have seen of the 4460 she she been under cover in St. Louis, which is better then the 4449 had in Portland, but was she kept oiled like the 4449 was (As I under stand the oiling was one of the biggest reasons why she was rebuilt for the freedom train).
I fell in love with the 4449 when I saw it in 2000 when it ran the BNSF Employee Special, I have seen her in all of her colors (AFT, BNSF, Daylight with big SP and small SP and the “War-Baby” black) I have road behind it 2 time and seen it about ten. From the first time I talked to Doyle McCormack in 2000 I wanted to do what he did and restore locomotives, most of all I wanted a northern. I stumbled across the 4460 and the 1st pic I saw I new that was the one I wanted to rebuild.
I wish to someday rebuild the GS-6 if I be 30 or 60 it’s a dream, I just hope that St. Louis in not like Sacramento and not let it get restored (Sacramento R.R. Museum has been ask by a few people with deep pocket if they could get the Cab Forward running but they have turned all of them down because they want to keep it for them self) If anyone has any information on the 4460 or any ideas on how to go about doing such a project ( $ or metal work…ect) it be nice to hear from you.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.rayman4449.dynip.com/sp4422.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.rayman4449.dynip.com/4449_photo1.htm&h=540&w=786&sz=90&hl=en&start=18&um=1&tbnid=7WrELMwZc72X4M:&tbnh=98&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3DSP%2BGS-6%2B4460%26ndsp%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN[/img]
Getting another northern running is a dream of many people but it may only be a dream. especially the 4460. The N&W J would probably be a more simple project. It was operational not too many years ago and burns coal. If memory serves me, part of the reason NS started running steam was because some people were trying to gather backing and PR for exploration in new and better ways to get energy from coal. But running any steam loco is a complex operation. Where do you run them? Especially a northern? I don't want to be the one to drop the fire but face it, steam is a luxury. I think it would be more advantageous to put your efforts into keeping the steam that is now operational running and not let the steam support get spread out too thin.
Can anyone imagine what it would take just to move 4294 out of the museum?
I under stand about how hard it would be to accomplish, and oil is just stupid right now and with the value of money going down I mean how far could 1 to 1.5 mill get you anymore? (Counting chickens before there hatched is bad, but that is amount or more that may be acquired at some point in time in the next 30 years)
About the UP I here its starting to be “more steam friendly” or at least that’s what some of the guys with the 844 said when it was up in Washington. I still think that if you got the 4460 running the UP would let the it run for a short time to transfer to BNSF track like they do in Portland for the 4449.
In truth the only thing I worry about is the thing that killed the 1522 and that’s the insurance, the rest of the project would almost take care of its self, once it gets started. And with the 1522 being at the same museum that means that the guys that worked on her are near by so there you have much help in experience right there. (Is the 1522 stored serviced?)
The Cab Fwrd would be neat to see but your right it is to big for running nowadays. From what I know the Sacramento RR Museum dose not want to lose its centerpiece, so they do not let people restore it.
Yes I know that rebuilding the 4460 is like 1000 to 1 but it’s nice to think about “what if this happened”. Till the day that some how she get rebuilt I will enjoy the steam we have running. And lets hope that the road ahead don’t get to bad.
Thanks for your reply.
SP4460 wrote:
About the UP I here its starting to be "more steam friendly" or at least that's what some of the guys with the 844 said when it was up in Washington. I still think that if you got the 4460 running the UP would let the it run for a short time to transfer to BNSF track like they do in Portland for the 4449.
Not to be a Party Pooper, but if you think that Union Pacific is getting more "Friendly" towards outside Steam, you REALLY need to read Trains Magazine Special Edition of "Steam Today". Please go to page 20 and read the side bar article that addresses this very subject. Doyle is both Lucky and Thankful that UP lets him use their tracks to reach Friendly trackage. UP must obviously have a LOT of respect for Doyle and his abilities to not only allow him this priviledge, but it is my understanding that Doyle and crew have had the use of the Brooklyn Roundhouse FREE of CHARGE. UP has also been very generous in giving the ORHF a considerable amount of time to locate a new home, which Hopefully has been found, and the deal will go through. So while UP may not be very open to allowing outside Steam on their tracks, They HAVE been VERY GENEROUS in regards to some outside Steam.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
I am sorry but I did just see that post was right under the one I did today also. I did not find it till the day after I made the post. I am sorry for the bring it up so soon but after awhile most of the subjects get talked a lot more then once. But I am sorry they are so close.
I just wanted to see if anyone had actually ever looked at it, if any thing have been done to it. but all I have gotten is just shut down. Stop the idea be for you go anymore there is no point in it. 4merroad4man is a 100% right on all that he said I don’t deny that. But am tired of people just settling, no one want to go out and do anything anymore its much nice to say its to hard and not go out and accomplish anything. I think its stupid that people are so worry of failure that they will not even try. (Sorry but I hate it when ever someone brings up rebuilding something all you get here is negativity)
I know that all the cost that it would take to rebuild it and the amount you would make running, and they would never be near to balancing out. The cons out way the pros a lot and they always will, but that don’t mean you cant dream or at least try.
Hi SP4460,
I Hope that You did not take my comment in a Rude context, it most definitely was not meant in that way. The mentioned article does explain Union Pacific's policy on outside Steam, and I thought that it would give You the information straight from the horse's mouth.
First off thanks Doug for taking time your time and talking.
It was more at WP 3020 when he said “yet another rumor” and how he went about saying that it was wrong statement, it just sparked a little irritation. It was not intended to be a rumor! A few of the 844 crew had stated that the UP may get more steam friendly, so I stated what I had been told, and with it being said last year and with what I have been reading, I can see I was wrong in saying it. I under stand the UP's policy on outside steam and though I may not like it that is how it is. I guess I was hoping it would change and I guess I should have not put so much faith on them saying it changing.
Sorry for the little out burst but it is kind of irritating how fast the subject of rebuilding a steam engine gets shot down.
OOHHH, How I wish it weren't so. I myself would LOVE to see more Steam returned to the land of the living. Unfortunately these days the costs and obstacles are beyond belief when it comes to putting the breath of life into these Magnificent machines.
I am on the same boat. I fell in love with the engine and knew it would be my goal to see it on the road someday.
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Ok...UP is steam friendly. But as Seven Lee told me before his retierment. It is more about the people behind the locomotive than the locomotive its self. The UP dose not want a bunch of rich spoiled brat railfans on their line trying to run a steam locomotive with no idea of what they are doing, other than "we'er going to be famous for restoreing this locomotive'. If you look in the past the only steam that has been allowed to run over the UP has been "Class Acts" 4449, 700, 1522, and 261. The people that run these locomotives have proven themselfs to the UP (as well as NS and BN) that they know how to run a steam program and respect the railroads that let them run on their rails.
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