NYC Central Empire State Express Question

[nicknoyes]

I read in a book titled, Thoroughbreds, that the New York Central Empire State Express passenger train of late 1941 introduced new Budd built passenger cars with fluted aluminum sides. This consist including two Tavern Lounge Observation cars one named for Theodore Roosevelt the other for Franklin D. Roosevelt. Did these Observation cars continue to operate until the merger in 1967? What happened to these two cars?

Thank you in advance for any information you may have.

Nick

[J. Edgar]

 acording to Don Ball Jr's Decade of the Trains; the 1940's as of 1967 1 or 2 of the original coaches were alive in Mexico but the Ob's cars " no one can find the Observation car"

[nicknoyes]

Thank you J. Edgar

[daveklepper]

The train was inaugurated in service on December 7th 1941, the same day as the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.   It was an all-Budd coach and parlor streamliner, with the observation lounge car having a parlor section.  Two J3a locomotives had distinctive streamlining for the train.  NYC had ordered additional coaches, and the consist was lengthened.   During the war the train's run was extended west from Buffalo to both Cleveland and Detroit, with the obs going to Cleveland.   As soon as Niagras were available, they handled the Harmon to Buffalo leg with Hudsons used at both  Detroit and Cleveland to and from Buffalo.  When riding slacked off, sometime in the early '60's, I believe, the New York - Albany leg was combined with the Laurentian, and the parlor-obs began running between NY and Montreal, available to ESE patrons only between NY and Albany.  Before being sold to Mexico, one or both of these cars would occasionally be used as a Poughkeepsie - NY commuter club car.

[wjstix]

An unfortunate turn of events for the railroad, they decided to invite the press to a special big unveiling run of the train 12/07/41 figuring they would get more publicity than usual, since Sundays were always slow news days. Oops !!

[M636C]

In Arthur Dubin's book "More Classic Trains" on page 472, there is a photo of NdeM dining car "Villa Rica" ex NYC Diner "John Jay" ex the 1941 Empire State Express. On facing page 473 there is a photo of Budd observation car NdeM "Club Coahuila" which is described as ex NYC but not otherwise identified. It might be one of the "Roosevelt" cars but I don't know for sure.

I'm pretty sure that there was a colour cover photo on Trains magazine during the 1970s of a Budd observation in Mexico but again I am not sure whether it was ex the Empire State Express.

M636C

[nicknoyes]

Hi M636C,

Thank you for the info!!

Nick 

 

[RRCharlie]

nicknoyes;

It has taken me weeks to find the book I was looking for: "New York Central's Great Steel Fleet 1948-1967" by Geoffrey H. Doughty.

The Theodore Roosevelt and Franklin D. Roosevelt Observation/Bar/Lounge cars from the Empire State Express were retired in 1958 and then sold to the National Railways of Mexico.

[nicknoyes]

RR Charlie,

Thank you very much for your research. I was happy to receive your response.

 Nick