Ok...
Currently if a locomtoive is to be delivered to a RR like say a AC4400CW to Union Pacific the unit is just placed dead in tow or placed as part of a locomotive consist till the locomotive hits UP territory. But what about days of steam? I could immagine that a smaller locomotive could be placed dead in-tow like today, but what about the huge mammoths of steam...like the Big Boy or a Challenger or a Cab-Forward or any articulated locomtoive? Both Southern Pacific and Union Pacific had to completely re-do their track and infastructure to handle them. The Big Boy was built by ALCo in New York State. How did they transport a Big Boy from New York State to UP terriorty (NE/WY)? I am assumeing that the eastern RR's didn't rebuild their track so UP could get their beloved Big Boys. did they ship them by Barge up the Mississippi?
A steam locomotive without any water in its boiler weighs less.
Maximum allowable axle loadings on the Official Territory roads that served the locomotive builders at Schenectady, Philadelphia, and Lima were at least as high as any western road. Main lines of the Official Territory and Pocohontas roads were overall built to the highest standards in the U.S.
Rigid-frame locomotives such as 4-8-4s and 2-8-4s common in the Official Territory often had at least as high an axle loading as locomotives used on western roads. Heaviest locomotives of all were the C&O and Virginian Alleghenies.
I think someone might have misled you if they said that SP and UP had to completely redo their infrastructure to handle large articulated locomotives. UP had to spread some track centers, relocate some signal masts, and install some turntables to accommodate the Big Boy, but it's basic infrastructure was already well capable of handling this locomotive. It wasn't as if it had to relay with heavier rail and replace the bridges. It already had 4-12-2s, heavy 2-10-2s, and heavy 2-8-8-0s, and SP had been stepping up through heavier rigid-frame and articulated locomotives as well. (D&RGW, WP, GN, and NP had extremely heavy locomotives as well.)
RWM
Railway Man wrote:A steam locomotive without any water in its boiler weighs less.Maximum allowable axle loadings on the Official Territory roads that served the locomotive builders at Schenectady, Philadelphia, and Lima were at least as high as any western road. Main lines of the Official Territory and Pocohontas roads were overall built to the highest standards in the U.S. Rigid-frame locomotives such as 4-8-4s and 2-8-4s common in the Official Territory often had at least as high an axle loading as locomotives used on western roads. Heaviest locomotives of all were the C&O and Virginian Alleghenies.I think someone might have misled you if they said that SP and UP had to completely redo their infrastructure to handle large articulated locomotives. UP had to spread some track centers, relocate some signal masts, and install some turntables to accommodate the Big Boy, but it's basic infrastructure was already well capable of handling this locomotive. It wasn't as if it had to relay with heavier rail and replace the bridges. It already had 4-12-2s, heavy 2-10-2s, and heavy 2-8-8-0s, and SP had been stepping up through heavier rigid-frame and articulated locomotives as well. (D&RGW, WP, GN, and NP had extremely heavy locomotives as well.) RWM
Interesting...never thought of that...obvious now. DUH!
I have one of those head-banging moments every day at work as I learn that something I thought was so isn't. My big worry is that in about 5 years the old heads above me will all be gone -- then it'll be the young guys that are smarter than me!
rogruth wrote:I'm not sure where,but there is apicture of about twenty steam locos being delivered.I think Baldwins and the train was called the "prosperity Special".
The locomotives were being delivered to the SP in the latter half of June 1922. The country was in a post-WW1 recession, so the shipment was conceived as a publicity stunt to encourage economic recovery.
Railway Man wrote:Maximum allowable axle loadings on the Official Territory roads that served the locomotive builders at Schenectady, Philadelphia, and Lima were at least as high as any western road. Main lines of the Official Territory and Pocohontas roads were overall built to the highest standards in the U.S. Rigid-frame locomotives such as 4-8-4s and 2-8-4s common in the Official Territory often had at least as high an axle loading as locomotives used on western roads. Heaviest locomotives of all were the C&O and Virginian Alleghenies.
Both the C&O and Virginian had much better vertical clearances than the UP of that era - the Allegheny was almost a foot taller than the Big Boy. On the other hand, the NYC was known for restricted clearances on its main line, which could have posed a bit of a challenge in moving the Big Boys out of Schenectady.
erikem wrote: Railway Man wrote:Maximum allowable axle loadings on the Official Territory roads that served the locomotive builders at Schenectady, Philadelphia, and Lima were at least as high as any western road. Main lines of the Official Territory and Pocohontas roads were overall built to the highest standards in the U.S. Rigid-frame locomotives such as 4-8-4s and 2-8-4s common in the Official Territory often had at least as high an axle loading as locomotives used on western roads. Heaviest locomotives of all were the C&O and Virginian Alleghenies.Both the C&O and Virginian had much better vertical clearances than the UP of that era - the Allegheny was almost a foot taller than the Big Boy. On the other hand, the NYC was known for restricted clearances on its main line, which could have posed a bit of a challenge in moving the Big Boys out of Schenectady.
The really serious restricted clearances on the NYC were on the Hudson River route, south and east of Schenectady. NYC steam had to reach Harmon, which meant passing through the 19th century clearances of the Hudson Narrows tunnels. Big Boy would have fit those tunnels like a champaign cork!
Chuck (former NYC fan)
From thsi website, http://www.prrths.com/PRR_MotivePower.html
a shot of the famous Prosperity Special -- a large order of Baldwins going to the SP in 1922 (with of course a Pennsy engine on the point), but there were similar publicity photos taken of other deliveries.
I do not know if the SP engines had all their rods attached, very possibly not, to minimize what had to be lubricated en route. I do not know about the days of steam, but in the diesel era, often a state was chosen for delivery due to its sales tax, or lack of sales tax, since the state where the handover to the purchasing railroad took place usually got to tax the transaction. Somethings those deliveries would become photo-ops.
Dave Nelson
One problem nobody has discussed is lubrication. All of those friction bearings need regular lubrication, and without sufficient steam, you aren't lubricating the pistons. When the cargo included new locomotives, lube stops were probably a much bigger issue (and difficulty). Yes, you can disconnect the rods, but then everything is out of balance and the wheels pound the track harder.
Weights / axle loadings probably weren't often a big issue (as previosuly posted, clearances were sometimes an issue). The lack of water does help by lowering the weight, substantially but not immensely. Presumably most boilers held a fair bit less water than their tenders, and tenders held roughly 10,000 to 25,000 gal for larger locomotives, which is roughly 80,000 to 200,000 lbs. in water. You would have also had some weight savings in fuel--IIRC the bigger tenders held about 25 tons of fuel.
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