Mississippi River Crossings

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Posted by blhanel on Friday, August 12, 2005 9:41 PM
Hey guys, here's one shot of #31 that I had readily available- I think I have a few more on a CD somewhere that show the bridge in various stages of swung open.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/85729295@N00/33545398/
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Posted by Big_Boy_4005 on Saturday, August 13, 2005 12:04 AM
Nice pics, once I got in there I flipped through all of the train shots. I see you visited the Twin Cities.
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Posted by DanRaitz on Saturday, August 13, 2005 8:22 AM
one problem.
That bridge on the north side of Brainerd is not the Minnesota & International RR bridge. The M&I was incorparated in 1900 taking over the assets of the Brainerd & Northern Minnesota RR. The M&I used the Northern Pacific bridge to cross the Mississippi River and then turned north to Bemidji.
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=15&X=2034&Y=25671&W
As to that bridge that you are showing, I don't know who's it is (was?).

Dan
If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy .... Red Green
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Posted by nanaimo73 on Saturday, August 13, 2005 8:56 AM
I read that the M&I basically closed down around 1932 or 1933 and I was thinking NP shifted the line to their bridge when they took over after 1941. I think I'll list it as a possible bridge for now. My 1942 atlas shows the route using the NP bridge.
This would help
www.upress.umn.edu/Books/K/king_minnesota.html
Dale
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Posted by DanRaitz on Saturday, August 13, 2005 9:34 AM
The M&I was in operation until 1941 when the NP took over at a forecloser sale.
As to that bridge in question, I looked at some of my topo maps and it shows it to be a highway bridge, CR25 to be exact.

Dan
If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy .... Red Green
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Posted by Big_Boy_4005 on Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:30 AM
Actually, it looks like you are both right. Go back to this link and look at the photo and both maps enlarged.

www.macalester.edu/geography/mage/urban/Brainerd/rail.htm

The narrow gauge logging road that used that bridge, never connected with the NP. I suspect that when the logging road went out, the site was converted to the county road, and has subsequently been enlarged.

So, by Dale's standards, there really was another railroad bridge over the Mississippi. It was a narrow gauge logging railroad bridge that is now a road bridge.
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Posted by blhanel on Saturday, August 13, 2005 3:15 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

Nice pics, once I got in there I flipped through all of the train shots. I see you visited the Twin Cities.


Yes, I get up there quite a bit. Was born in Mankato and raised up in Prior Lake, just south of Shakopee. My folks still live there. My Mom grew up in northwest Wisconsin, so that area's pretty much like home as well.
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, August 14, 2005 8:21 PM
Quote from Big_Boy_4005:

Class ones over time is a moving target because periodicly the revenue requirements changed. Add to that all of the merger activity over the years, and the number of class ones operating in any given state drops like a rock. I'm not sure what today's revenue levels are. My guess is that Illinois still has the most, but that's almost a no brainer.

There is the forward to an excellent book!

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by Big_Boy_4005 on Monday, August 15, 2005 1:26 AM
Dale, I see you're down to the Twin Cities with your renumbering. When you pu***hrough, I go back and renumber in all my posts. It figures you found the 52nd in northern Minnesota. It couldn't have been in Louisana. That would have been too easy.[;)]
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Posted by nanaimo73 on Monday, August 15, 2005 1:31 AM

I should have started in Louisiana and gone up. I put in an interlibrary request for Logging Railroads of Minnesota. I think it will show 2 more (just a guess).

Dale
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Posted by Big_Boy_4005 on Monday, August 15, 2005 9:01 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73

I should have started in Louisiana and gone up. I put in an interlibrary request for Logging Railroads of Minnesota. I think it will show 2 more (just a guess).


Oh no, I hope not. I must say, you are being thorough. No logging roads of Iowa though, thank God.[:p]

I guess I'll wait til the dust settles.[;)]
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 15, 2005 8:40 PM
i am greatly impressed. while i know little of the twin cities area, i do know more about
the crossings st. louis to the south. i assume that mckinley in st louis is still open to
automobile traffic. the track ran alongside the vehicles. you have done a great job to
include ferries. there appears to be some evidence that ferries once operated at
memphis near the present bridge sites. the two ferries just south of cairo are not well
known, esp. the one at belmont. huey long at metairie la has some interesting
aspects. also -- missing are the ferries that operated for southern pacific and missouri
pacific-t&p passenger trains near downtown new orleans before huey long opened.
mike palmieri operates the louisiana rail site and has information as to their location
on the east and west banks and connections to the stations in new orleans. this also
preceded the opening of n.o.u.p.t. serving all passenger trains. he has e-mail access,
and contributes frequently to loconotes. the downtown pair of ferries would be the
southernmost rail crossings of the mississippi river.

theo sommerkamp crosstie@wowway.com
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Posted by beaulieu on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 12:57 AM
nanaimo73 here is more information for you

The bridge at LaCrosse, WI opened November 27, 1876 bridge #28

The bridge W&StP (C&NW) bridge at Winona opened May 26th 1871 and collapsed the following day. Replacement opened January 21, 1872. Abandonment approved
12/24/1977 Bridge #26

The bridge at Hastings, MN opened December 9th, 1871 bridge #24

Bridge #20 opened September 29th, 1869

Bridge #25 opened July 1882 no exact date found. Abandoned 1952 no exact date found


Bridge #19 opened December 4th, 1880


I'll get you the rest of the dates for the Minnesota bridges tomorrow.

John Beaulieu
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Posted by beaulieu on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 11:55 PM
Further additions to information on the list

Bridge #5 Was built by the Mississippi, Hill City and Western, date unknown, the whole railroad was abandoned in 1935.

Bridge #12 opened June 12th, 1872, not as part of the Duluth to Willmar Line, but rather as part of the St. Paul to Moorhead line.

Bridge # 15 opened May 1st, 1867


Short of time that's all for today.

John Beaulieu
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 18, 2005 5:37 PM
WOW lots of realy good info in thid hot topic good job guys[:D]glennbob[:)]
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 18, 2005 5:38 PM
Sorry for the typpoo(typo) glennbob
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Posted by nanaimo73 on Friday, August 19, 2005 12:17 PM
Is this a railroad bridge in the background ?
www.stpaulterminal.org/historical/elevator/3.jpg
Dale
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Posted by DanRaitz on Friday, August 19, 2005 8:50 PM
I think we missed one[:0]

There is one just west of Grand Rapids, MN. It is on the BNSF (ex GN), it is a spur track serving the Ainsworth Oxboard plant (ex Potlatch).
So this one would be #5
http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=15&X=2276&Y=26165&W=1&qs=%7cgrand+rapids%7cmn%7c
Dan
If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy .... Red Green
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Posted by Big_Boy_4005 on Saturday, August 20, 2005 12:33 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73

Is this a railroad bridge in the background ?
www.stpaulterminal.org/historical/elevator/3.jpg


Dale, I think that is the old St Paul High Bridge, which was rebuilt within the last 15 years. It's not railroad, Smith Avenue.

Now that one in Grand Rapids could be the real deal.
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Posted by nanaimo73 on Saturday, August 20, 2005 2:01 AM
Thanks Dan. Thanks Elliot. The topo map shows a 4 mile line going to a gravel pit to the west. Most of that track looks like it is gone.
The bridge was built before 1970 ?
Fifty-three works for me.[:)]
Dale
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Posted by DanRaitz on Saturday, August 20, 2005 7:34 AM
It used to go out to Tioga pit (open pit iron mine). The pit is now abandoned and filled with ice cold water and big Lake Trout. You can still see the roadbed curving away to the southwest, after you cross the bridge. The Ainsworth OSB plant (Ox Board?) is only one or two miles past the bridge, the track that keeps going straight. Last summer BNSF replaced some of the (west end) wooden pilings and deck with with steel and concrete.

Dan
If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy .... Red Green
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Posted by nanaimo73 on Saturday, August 20, 2005 9:07 AM
Iron ore makes sense. I was thinking that line looked a bit expensive for a ballast pit.
I did not know Ainsworth had any oriented strand board plants in the USA.

Elliot, any guesses on these two ?

This could be anywhere.
www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=83223  

Is this the Short line bridge at Minneapolis ?
www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=83225
Dale
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Posted by beaulieu on Sunday, August 21, 2005 9:55 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73

Iron ore makes sense. I was thinking that line looked a bit expensive for a ballast pit.
I did not know Ainsworth had any oriented strand board plants in the USA.

Elliot, any guesses on these two ?

This could be anywhere.
www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=83223

Is this the Short line bridge at Minneapolis ?
www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=83225


The first one is not over the Mississippi River, totally wrong look to the banks.

The second one is the Short Line Bridge.
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Posted by Big_Boy_4005 on Sunday, August 21, 2005 12:26 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by beaulieu

QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73

Iron ore makes sense. I was thinking that line looked a bit expensive for a ballast pit.
I did not know Ainsworth had any oriented strand board plants in the USA.

Elliot, any guesses on these two ?

This could be anywhere.
www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=83223

Is this the Short line bridge at Minneapolis ?
www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=83225


The first one is not over the Mississippi River, totally wrong look to the banks.

The second one is the Short Line Bridge.


I would have to agree with this assesment on both counts. That's a very nice classic photo of the Short Line Bridge, only wish it was in color.

I was out and about again yesterday, and got lucky at Robert Street. Morning light would have been better, but beggers can't be choosers.



Then it was down river to Inver Grove Heights to catch the remnents of the Rock Island bridge. I would like to spend some more time on this one, because it is so cool, and becoming so fragile as it rots. Much of the wooden approach trestle on the west bank is still there, though severely overgrown by trees.



I was in a hurry again, so the lighting isn't the best. You can just make out the swing span in the distance, which is permanently open for river navigation.



The sun was nearly gone when I got to the Omaha Bridge. The long exposure is slightly blurry, sorry. You can just see part of it in the open position. I think I can still get a better angle shot of this, and do justice to it's asymetrical counter weighted construction.



Dale, I see that you corrected the St Paul Bridge and Terminal's name, and added a link. I have always said that the train world is a small place. I know Dave Zuhn, and have been to his house and seen his layout. I've been meaning to contact him and get on his operating crew. That bridge is a booger to get a photo of, because the sewage trearment plant blocks access on the east bank and the UP has the west bank totally closed off.

By the way, I may have to shoot the next person who finds another bridge site north of the Iowa border. [banghead][:-,][sigh][swg] I'll go back and renumber again.[:(][;)]


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Posted by nanaimo73 on Sunday, August 21, 2005 12:55 PM
Thanks John. Thanks for the photos Elliot.
I'm about done unless that logging railway book comes. I don't mind renumbering, I've had enough practice now and it is easy. I've given up trying to find any more dates. I can't even find the date the last train went over the Stone Arch bridge.
I would like Steve Glischinski to see this. I think he could do an interesting Trains article on it.
I came across this but I have not looked into it yet-
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collections/habs_haer/  
I put links to that site at Winona, Ft. Madison, Keokuk, Alton, Eads, MacArthur and Memphis.
Dale
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 22, 2005 4:32 PM
speaking of crossing the mississippi I took a trip to new orlins in the late 1960's back then one of the methods of crossing, was the ferry boat ,it travled from the west at n.o. to the east side at a town called algers they were takilin at that time of compleeting a bride, hope that is of some help . glennbob
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Posted by samfp1943 on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 4:55 PM
This is quite an a piece of research..Congratulations! Having grown up in Memphis,Tn, and being one who grew up enjoying trains in Memphis, I would like to add some small bits of info: The Harahan Bridge #50 was originally both railway ,and wagonway structure, planks laid down covering the ties and deck provided a surface for wagons, horses and later automotive traffic. There still remains in the eastern abutment a stone strong room that was the toll repository. At some point in the 1930's or early 40's two ten foot wide roadways were attached to the outsides of the Harahan Bridge, allowing both automobiles and trains to cross at the same time, This was quite a scary ride for a young boy when a train was also crossing, as the bridge shook and the noise was very loud. Bridge #49 has always been referred to locally as the 'Frisco Bridge'. I have been down one the east end on many occassions to watch the trains come across, especially , in cotton harvest season, when the Frisco would use a large pool of wooden sheathed boxcars to transport cotton to the markets. Spontaneous combustion would cause fires in the bales and it was really a sight to see one or more of these flaming cars coming across the bridge with the flames shooting through the upper structure of the bridge so they could get the cars to Memphis, where the Fire Department would be waiting to put out the fires, quite a sight. Because of this kind of Danger there was a watchman stationed on the bridge to ck for fires, and they usually were not adverse to some company as they walked to the Ark. side and back. It was one of these fellows who told me that the westernmost pier of the bridge was a floater, due to scouring there by the river. The bridges are accessible from surface streets and provide plenty of action then and now, as long as one does not trespass on the railroads property there are plenty of locations at Memphis for good pictures.

 

 


 

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Posted by samfp1943 on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 5:19 PM
One last addition, until the 1950's there was a ferry landing under the Harahan and Memphis and Arkansas Bridges. I think it ceased to be used in the late 1940's but it was the Rock Island's and their passenger and freight came in to Memphis via car ferry from the Arkansas side . It was a pretty steep climb up the Bluff to get to the station and Coach yards on the South Bluffs. The site has been occupied for a number of years by a company that services and provisions the passing towboat traffic.

 

 


 

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Posted by DanRaitz on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:21 PM

Are we ready to renumber every bridge?
I was going through some of my papers and came across a partial copy of the 1914 Sanborn map of Bemidji, MN. It shows 4 RR bridges on the Mississippi River between Lake Irvine and Lake Bemidji.


The first one was the Minneapolis, Red Lake & Manitoba RR (abandoned, removed 1938).
The second is the Great Northern Rwy (currently in use, BNSF).
The third was the Minneapolis, St. Paul & Sault Ste. Marie Ry (abandoned - in place).
And the fourth was the Minnesota & International Ry (later Northern Pacific) (abandoned, removed).
Dan

If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy .... Red Green

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